Whats the Point?

[Frank Leroux]

My point was simply that I find most of the discussion in this forum incredibly dull. I really value people's opinions on things but I can't help feeling there's a danger of individuals putting too much faith in their own judgment. In almost all cases these people have absolutely nothing to go on except their own expectations/prejudices. When questioned about the pointlessness of it they defend themselves with how they have a right to their opinion which, frankly, isn't the point at all.

The point is not what right they have to express it but why it should be given any credence by anyone.

Still, according to Alun, I'm getting boring so I'll leave you to it.

Not being smart here, Neil, but I'm not sure what you're saying there.

You're finding the discussions here dull? But continue to read/take part? You value poeples opinions, but wonder why (certain of them?) they should be given any credence? You are concerned that people post comments based only on their own expectations/predjudices? And that they might think they're correct also?

This place, and others like it, is a place to discuss, joke, slag, etc. amongst a group of people who have a common interest/fanatacism (and all shades in between). We're dipping into a micro community over which we have no control (as we shouldn't) other than to turn off. Like out in the real world, we get to know who we like to filter out and filter in. If your thing is humour, great. Heartfelt debate on the future of the club, you'll find it here. No science or analysis needed (unless, that's what I've just done....).

I don't post that often. I could patronise (and be disingenuous) and say that it's because there's 'so many others putting my points across more eloquently', but that's not the real reason. I guess I'm looking for different things here than others. I find the cliques that do form annoying, the in jokes, the language used boring. I accept I'm probably a generation (ok, or two) older than many of the posters and that might be my blind spot. I rather post when I've something to say/contribute than simply an ''

But that's enough about me...

Great thread, though. From the meaning of (Forum) life, to Benitez is as bad as Houllier and back to this....it's what the Forum's about!

Frank

[Los Rojos]

I think he's morphing into Houllier personally. Baffling decisions, bizarre aftermatch comments, 'falling out' with one of his star players. He seems determined to make sure everyone is aware we win because of him not the players. But I hope to hell I'm wrong and he'll come good. I don't think I've got the energy to start all over and wait another 5 years with someone else.

I pray to the football gods everynight that he's the one.

i don't feel as i did about houllier. i completely wrote houllier off.

I started the Houllier Out campaign on KT.

Out of interest lads, at what point did you finally come to the conclusion that Houllier had to go?

For me, it was the Sunderland away game when they had the hapless Howard Wilkinson in charge and we somehow still managed to lose 2-1. Some of his comments after that games (and I think the Newcastle game a bit later on at Xmas) were ludicrous.

Regarding Rafa, I still think he's going to win us the league at some point but the rest of this season may change that opinion.

[Guest]

The football forum is the worst part about this site IMO. Too many people get on their high horse when there is a difference of opinion.

Football is all about opinions some may love Rafa some may not but when people start calling each other just because their opinions differ that's when the problems start.

I think people should respect one and others opinion and realise that the majority of the time you are never going to convert someones opinions to your own so you should agree to disagree.

Again people getting on their high horse about certain jokes that they don't like is just getting ridiculous. This discussion has been done to death now and it IMO is getting pretty boring.

Well said fatty.

I'm trying not to read posts in the LFC forum, but am having withdrawal symptoms.

[Dhav]

It's not the waiting that's a problem, it's the concern that Rafa's methods wont win it.

That's certainly a fair and valid concern to have

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned as well, but at this moment I'm willing to give Rafa the benefit of the doubt. I believe he has the intelligence and nous to addapt his methods accordingly to ensure he achieves Premiership success, just that it might require a bit more time. I'd also be more than willing to revise that opinion if we have a disastrous league campaign this year.

[AFII]

This is Rafa's first season that he really has been able to go for his top targets.

If you compare that to Wenger and Fergie then they have been able to go for their top targets a long time.

It will take time for Rafa to build the squad he want. If we win the league before then, then that's a bonus.

Give him two, three years and we will have a fantastic squad.

We already have a young squad with something like nine, ten players that will probably play for us the next five plus years.

Reina, Carra, Agger, Gerrard, Alonso, Lucas, Torres, Babel, Insua and Mascherano.

That is an excellent spine.

[Craig_H]

This is Rafa's first season that he really has been able to go for his top targets.

If you compare that to Wenger and Fergie then they have been able to go for their top targets a long time.

It will take time for Rafa to build the squad he want. If we win the league before then, then that's a bonus.

Give him two, three years and we will have a fantastic squad.

We already have a young squad with something like nine, ten players that will probably play for us the next five plus years.

Reina, Carra, Agger, Gerrard, Alonso, Lucas, Torres, Babel, Insua and Mascherano.

That is an excellent spine.

I've never had a concern about the players/squad. It's good enough.

My concern is how Rafa chooses to use them.

[AFII]

I've never had a concern about the players/squad. It's good enough.

My concern is how Rafa chooses to use them.

I think that will change when he gets his top targets. He didn't rotate the players in the same way at Valencia. Some of the players played week in week out in the league.

When they won the UEFA Cup and the league they used more or less one team in the league and another in the UEFA Cup.

Rafa is still testing the squad IMO. He will add some high quality players every season to add to our spine.

[Dhav]

I think that will change when he gets his top targets. He didn't rotate the players in the same way at Valencia. Some of the players played week in week out in the league.

When they won the UEFA Cup and the league they used more or less one team in the league and another in the UEFA Cup.

Rafa is still testing the squad IMO. He will add some high quality players every season to add to our spine.

I fully agree with this and AFII's previous post. I think Rafa's methods will be refined accordingly when he manages to tweak the squad a bit more and bring in a bit more quality. Right now it is obvious to me we have weaknesses in one or two areas and Rafa needs a bit more time to get that right by getting rid of a couple of players and repalce them with a bit more quality.

[Los Rojos]

When they won the UEFA Cup and the league they used more or less one team in the league and another in the UEFA Cup.

Is that really true? That shows some serious strength in depth if so.

[MrMichael]

Again we're going on in circles. Rafa isn't above criticism nor the players, but seeing comments such as 'momo is ****e' or 'rafa is ****ing clueless' or has 'lost the plot' is extremely frustrating and it has driven many decent posters off these forums lately.

Winning the league is not as cut and dried and simple as people make it out. Rafa can't automagically build teams which plays fantasy football all the time. It's about the players too, fitting and understanding his system and fully backing it, without the moaning to the press (Crouch at the start of the season). Gerrard seems to have taken his substitution on the chin, and that should be like that. Rafa is the boss, not him nor the supporters.

At the end of the day, we aren't playing well and still within touching distance of the leaders, who are playing much better than us at the moment. It may get worse, what will we know, but in my opinion some players are suffering from a loss of confidence.

Discussion is good, unless it's the same arguments over and over and over again, and that is depressing. We're supporters, so we should stick with supporting the team without being negative on the whole. That's what too many posters have been doing lately.

Fredo in "best post in thread" shocker

[Guest]

Fredo in "best post in thread" shocker

I never get the credit more often.

[Frank Leroux]

I lean more twards DJS's view. I believe a manager has a philosophy which he follows. At the moment I'd find it incredible (as in not-credible) that Benitez will get a better quality squad and alter his methods to how he has thus far worked.

I think it's a fundamental difference in views - we are not challenging for the title because of our current squad/injuries/focus versus the view that we will not challenge because of the managers methods.

Hopefully I'm wrong.

Frank

[RedProf]

There have been concerns raised on here that Rafa can't build a good attacking unit as he can a good defensive unit. Rafa's Valencia was a fantastically efficient attacking unit - we all remember how we got walloped by them. Once he has the players who have the technique to play like that and can do so in the PL I am sure our team will morph into a much better unit when it cames to attacking. Do people really think Rafa does not want his team to attack as his old Valencia team did, due to it being too "creative"?

[AFII]

There have been concerns raised on here that Rafa can't build a good attacking unit as he can a good defensive unit. Rafa's Valencia was a fantastically efficient attacking unit - we all remember how we got walloped by them. Once he has the players who have the technique to play like that and can do so in the PL I am sure our team will morph into a much better unit when it cames to attacking. Do people really think Rafa does not want his team to attack as his old Valencia team did, due to it being too "creative"?

If you look at the players that Rafa has tried to sign then more or less all of them are very creative and skillful players.

[tomasjj]

There have been concerns raised on here that Rafa can't build a good attacking unit as he can a good defensive unit. Rafa's Valencia was a fantastically efficient attacking unit - we all remember how we got walloped by them. Once he has the players who have the technique to play like that and can do so in the PL I am sure our team will morph into a much better unit when it cames to attacking. Do people really think Rafa does not want his team to attack as his old Valencia team did, due to it being too "creative"?

No, but I do have concerns about some of the creative players being able to remain creative within Rafa's systems, systems that I think might put too much of a strain on some creative players.

It would be interesting to hear more about Rafa's attacking philosophies, especially not in a counter attacking manner. Sure, we know about controlling the game by passing it about around the opposition box, getting some crosses in, but I would be interested to hear more about how the balance between freedom/patterns of play expected is in his setup.

Valencia was great to watch, so it is beyond doubt that Rafa does know how to attack.