Whats the Point?

[Craig_H]

IMO with you two fine gentleman It's a 'no win' situation for Rafa.

If we win tonight your response will be 'We should be beating them' If we win on Sunday 'One swallow doesn't make a summer' yet if we dare scrape a win away to Everton 'lets hang Rafa he doesn't know what he's doing'

Why are you identifying single matches?

Challenge properly for the league title and i'll be delighted. There's your 'win situation'...

[AFII]

First point I'll make.

We're unbeaten in the league.

Surely the most important thing at the moment?

Secondly, all this ****e about "not understanding Rafa's tactics" or his "substitutions", is exactly that - ****e.

You're not meant to ****ing understand them - Rafa and the team are (and do), so do yourselves (and everyone else) a favour and don't bother trying.

Us mere mortals, and opposition Managers/Teams are meant to be in the dark over his decisions. Surely that's the ****ing point? To do the unpredictable, and still get the result - which as I alluded to in my first point, we have got the results.

I don't see the problem, to be honest.

We're still picking up points, whilst at times not playing particulary well, which is a definite sign of a title winning/challenging side, so why all the moaning?

None of us know as much about football as we like to think we do. If we did, we sure as **** wouldn't be sitting on our arses writing about it on this place.

People like Rafa, Wenger, Mourinho (bye bye), Ferguson (whiskey nosed ****face) and any other manager worth their salt out there, study all facets of football, day in, day out, hours on end.

We, watch it. Read a bit about it on horse**** websites, and play ultrarealisticwowimreally****inggoodatthisyabastar d football games, and think we're "in the know."

We're not in the know, and never will have the same knowledge as the people out there actually "doing it", so the sooner some people accept that, and get back to doing what we're supposed to be doing - you know, ****ing supporting this team and the manager, then the easier and more enjoyable it becomes. Again.

Seriously, next time you want to question a man who's won the UEFA Cup, European Cup (and been runner up...) the Super Cup, won 2 League titles in a league that's regarded as the strongest in the world, won the FA Cup, been to the final of the Carling Cup and World Club Championship, signed some of the best players we've had at this club since we last won the league, and conducts himself with total dignity (unlike some sour miserable *******s I could mention), then do yourself a small favour...

Peel yourself from your stinking computer chair, take a deep breath, and remember - you're a ****ing idiot.

We have not got the results.

Draws at home against Spurs and Birmingham isn't good enough and we should win our home games against our title rivals, we got a draw against Chelsea, that is not good enough.

If you look at our fixture list so far then we have played three, maybe four difficult games. The rest is must win games that you expect us to win nine times out of ten.

A draw isn't a good result because you only get one point. A win is a good result because you get three points.

What would you rather do, finish second in the league unbeaten or win the league losing a few games?

I can agree with that we are not even close being as good as Rafa but we still hasn't got good enough results.

We won't get any bonus points because Rafa is an excellent manager. We need to earn the points on the pitch.

[Pacman]

Why are you identifying single matches?

Challenge properly for the league title and i'll be delighted.

No middle ground with you mate.

He's either **** or he isn't.

Rafa isn't above criticism and by the same token the stick that you and CAD give him is IMO a bit OTT.

[The Glove]

Challenge properly for the league title and i'll be delighted. There's your 'win situation'...

Is that not what we are doing now then?

[Reece]

Is that not what we are doing now then?

Haven't you noticed Chris, we are currently languishing in mid-table.

[Craig_H]

We have not got the results.

Draws at home against Spurs and Birmingham isn't good enough and we should win our home games against our title rivals, we got a draw against Chelsea, that is not good enough.

If you look at our fixture list so far then we have played three, maybe four difficult games. The rest is must win games that you expect us to win nine times out of ten.

A draw isn't a good result because you only get one point. A win is a good result because you get three points.

What would you rather do, finish second in the league unbeaten or win the league losing a few games?

I can agree with that we are not even close being as good as Rafa but we still hasn't got good enough results.

We won't get any bonus points because Rafa is an excellent manager. We need to earn the points on the pitch.

*waits for the RCDNW crew to pop their heads out of the sand briefly to abuse AFII*

[dww]

Why are you identifying single matches?

Challenge properly for the league title and i'll be delighted. There's your 'win situation'...

You have an infuriating way of changing the goalposts on these discussions. You want to be able to critique Rafas methods using individual examples and say you should be able to criticise methods designed specifically to help us over the season due to there effects on games now (like Rafas rotation choices) yet when someone with the opposing view does the same you get your knickers in a twist.

[CAD]

IMO with you two fine gentleman It's a 'no win' situation for Rafa.

If we win tonight your response will be 'We should be beating them' If we win on Sunday 'One swallow doesn't make a summer' yet if we dare scrape a win away to Everton 'lets hang Rafa he doesn't know what he's doing'

Not at all. Pacstar(ie).

I just stated that I found the substitution bizarre. I said that the only possible sane explanation is that he wanted to send a message to Gerrard and felt this was the time to do it. 11 against 10 and all.

Not once have I called for Rafas head here on Est. I have done it on SCM once as part of a gimmick which went 2 years back. I havn't seen any established poster call for Rafas head. In May we'll have a look and see if we won anything. I don't think we will from what I've seen so far. Call it uninformed if you please. Nothing could hurt us more than Rafa living mid-season. I think we all know that.

I try to explain my position every time I push critique forward and if the only rebootle from the RCDNW people is that we're all idiots, then guess what it makes them...

I am guilty of critizising Rafa. As are others. Maybe the owners of Est should forbid any critique of Rafa and the players? Surely that would be a step in the right direction?

[The Glove]

I wondered why you hadn't made an entrance on these topics yet Chris. All ok?

Nah not really mate but anyway, Ive come to the conclusion now that I dont give a **** how we play as long as we win. We're doing that so Im happy.

We exist to win trophies. Under Rafa, thats what we have done. Stick with Rafa and we will continue to do so. I know we all want the league and it will come. Ive waited long enough to see it as an adult so Im not getting carried away by demanding it this season. All any fan of any team can genuinely ask for is an improvement on the season before. No one has a right to demand a league title. League titles dont just happen, they take time and building. We have been **** for the best part of 20 years. Only once since before Rafa did we even look like winning the league, but in the last 3 years we have seen an improvement. The fact we are moaning about our best start in years kinda shows we have improved doesnt it?

The way people are carrying on you would think we are bottom of the league. We are in crisis obviously, I mean, how could we cope with Gerrard being taken off? Its a crisis so big it is only matched by losing to Arsenal in both cups last year, or a crisis so big that Torres was left on the bench against Birmingham. Or worse still both he and Gerrard didnt start away to Portsmouth. **** me its actually worse than losing to Burnley in the FA Cup. I mean, how could we carry on after that?

Ok we are not bang in form but so what? We are getting the points. Id rather we bumbled along now then hit form when it mattered than the other way around. The points are there so its good enough, not great but good enough.

[Craig_H]

Is that not what we are doing now then?

We've played 9 games mate.

And TWO out of those 9 saw us drop 4 home points in a pathetic manner, as well as the 2 we unluckily dropped to Chelsea.

Going on the same ratio, we'll only win about 5 or 6 home league games.

Is that gonna see us challenge for the title?

[The Glove]

Not at all. Pacstar(ie).

I just stated that I found the substitution bizarre. I said that the only possible sane explanation is that he wanted to send a message to Gerrard and felt this was the time to do it. 11 against 10 and all.

What about that everything was going through Gerrard so by taking him off it made other players step up and in stead of Everton just marking one person they then had to mark 3/4 which stretched them?

[Dalglish]

*waits for the RCDNW crew to pop their heads out of the sand briefly to abuse AFII*

[Dalglish]

We've played 9 games mate.

which answers your own knee jerking, nonsensical, agenda pushing, ever changing, half witted points

[The Glove]

We've played 9 games mate.

And TWO out of those 9 saw us drop 4 home points in a pathetic manner, as well as the 2 we unluckily dropped to Chelsea.

Going on the same ratio, we'll only win about 5 or 6 home league games.

Is that gonna see us challenge for the title?

Do you really think we will only win 5 or 6 home league games?

[Pacman]

Nah not really mate but anyway, Ive come to the conclusion now that I dont give a **** how we play as long as we win. We're doing that so Im happy.

We exist to win trophies. Under Rafa, thats what we have done. Stick with Rafa and we will continue to do so. I know we all want the league and it will come. Ive waited long enough to see it as an adult so Im not getting carried away by demanding it this season. All any fan of any team can genuinely ask for is an improvement on the season before. No one has a right to demand a league title. League titles dont just happen, they take time and building. We have been **** for the best part of 20 years. Only once since before Rafa did we even look like winning the league, but in the last 3 years we have seen an improvement. The fact we are moaning about our best start in years kinda shows we have improved doesnt it?

The way people are carrying on you would think we are bottom of the league. We are in crisis obviously, I mean, how could we cope with Gerrard being taken off? Its a crisis so big it is only matched by losing to Arsenal in both cups last year, or a crisis so big that Torres was left on the bench against Birmingham. Or worse still both he and Gerrard didnt start away to Portsmouth. **** me its actually worse than losing to Burnley in the FA Cup. I mean, how could we carry on after that?

Ok we are not bang in form but so what? We are getting the points. Id rather we bumbled along now then hit form when it mattered than the other way around. The points are there so its good enough, not great but good enough.

Well put sir