Whats the Point?

[Pacman]

Not at all. Pacstar(ie).

I just stated that I found the substitution bizarre. I said that the only possible sane explanation is that he wanted to send a message to Gerrard and felt this was the time to do it. 11 against 10 and all.

Not once have I called for Rafas head here on Est. I have done it on SCM once as part of a gimmick which went 2 years back. I havn't seen any established poster call for Rafas head. In May we'll have a look and see if we won anything. I don't think we will from what I've seen so far. Call it uninformed if you please. Nothing could hurt us more than Rafa living mid-season. I think we all know that.

I try to explain my position every time I push critique forward and if the only rebootle from the RCDNW people is that we're all idiots, then guess what it makes them...

I am guilty of critizising Rafa. As are others. Maybe the owners of Est should forbid any critique of Rafa and the players? Surely that would be a step in the right direction?

At the time I did but it worked and we won so I'm happy.

[Craig_H]

Nah not really mate but anyway, Ive come to the conclusion now that I dont give a **** how we play as long as we win. We're doing that so Im happy.

We exist to win trophies. Under Rafa, thats what we have done. Stick with Rafa and we will continue to do so. I know we all want the league and it will come. Ive waited long enough to see it as an adult so Im not getting carried away by demanding it this season. All any fan of any team can genuinely ask for is an improvement on the season before. No one has a right to demand a league title. League titles dont just happen, they take time and building. We have been **** for the best part of 20 years. Only once since before Rafa did we even look like winning the league, but in the last 3 years we have seen an improvement. The fact we are moaning about our best start in years kinda shows we have improved doesnt it?

The way people are carrying on you would think we are bottom of the league. We are in crisis obviously, I mean, how could we cope with Gerrard being taken off? Its a crisis so big it is only matched by losing to Arsenal in both cups last year, or a crisis so big that Torres was left on the bench against Birmingham. Or worse still both he and Gerrard didnt start away to Portsmouth. **** me its actually worse than losing to Burnley in the FA Cup. I mean, how could we carry on after that?

Ok we are not bang in form but so what? We are getting the points. Id rather we bumbled along now then hit form when it mattered than the other way around. The points are there so its good enough, not great but good enough.

Chris, i think the concern isnt that we arent winning games, it's that the way SOME things are being done, we feel as though the winning run might not be quite as long as we'd like.

[Dalglish]

Wht do you mean by

it's that the way SOME things are being done

[Pacman]

Chris, i think the concern isnt that we arent winning games, it's that the way SOME things are being done, we feel as though the winning run might not be quite as long as we'd like.

Like what?

[The Glove]

Chris, i think the concern isnt that we arent winning games, it's that the way SOME things are being done, we feel as though the winning run might not be quite as long as we'd like.

Go on....

[Craig_H]

Do you really think we will only win 5 or 6 home league games?

No i dont mate, of course not.

But that's the level we're at as of now. We've won 25% of our home games. That is clearly not good enough, is it? So based on what we HAVE done, dont we have cause to be concerned?

We can speculate about what we MIGHT do, but we all expected to beat Brum, it didnt happen. Same with Spurs.

We cant go on what we 'expect' or 'might do', we can only go on the results that are set in stone. Have they been good enough mate?

[CAD]

What about that everything was going through Gerrard so by taking him off it made other players step up and in stead of Everton just marking one person they then had to mark 3/4 which stretched them?

Do you really believe that? Everything was going through Gerrard?! And the pass from Babel which Kuyt played back in the box to Riise was going through Gerrard as well. Etc etc.

Rafa leaves a player with a 68% pass completion on, who is not needed because we are 11 against 10 and the opposition has nothing forward, ei. there is no balls to win for Momo and he pulls the captain who's finally starting to look like himself again for the first time since his injury? The player who just won us a pen and a man send off?! And to come out and say that Momo plays with more brains than Gerrard? Tell me you wouldn't be offended if you were SG. I dare you!

I simply refuse to believe that Rafa has that poor vision. I will not have it. My point must be valid if I'm to remain a believer in his tenure. It's a masterstroke if it's a message. Then and only then. He took a calculated risk with Lucas /SG and got his message across. If SG responds in a positive manner then it is indeed a masterstroke. We will learn more about this tonight from his attitude, I suppose.

Its was the whip instead of a carrot. Let's hope SG needed the whip. No way for us to know, right?

[Pacman]

No i dont mate, of course not.

But that's the level we're at as of now. We've won 25% of our home games. That is clearly not good enough, is it? So based on what we HAVE done, dont we have cause to be concerned?

We can speculate about what we MIGHT do, but we all expected to beat Brum, it didnt happen. Same with Spurs.

We cant go on what we 'expect' or 'might do', we can only go on the results that are set in stone. Have they been good enough mate?

If you look at it your way then we'll be ok because we will win most of our away games.

[The Glove]

We cant go on what we 'expect' or 'might do', we can only go on the results that are set in stone. Have they been good enough mate?

I didnt expect us to beat Everton. I didnt expect our away form to be 4 wins and a draw from 5. I dont expect anything. Your expectations of us beating all and sundry at a canter and playing the same team every game without fail is what is letting you down.

You say we cant go on 'expecting' so then why expect us to beat teams then moan when we dont?

[The Glove]

Do you really believe that? Everything was going through Gerrard?! And the pass from Babel which Kuyt played back in the box to Riise was going through Gerrard as well. Etc etc.

Rafa leaves a player with a 68% pass completion on, who is not needed because we are 11 against 10 and the opposition has nothing forward, ei. there is no balls to win for Momo and he pulls the captain who's finally starting to look like himself again for the first time since his injury? The player who just won us a pen and a man send off?! And to come out and say that Momo plays with more brains than Gerrard? Tell me you wouldn't be offended if you were SG. I dare you!

I simply refuse to believe that Rafa has that poor vision. I will not have it. My point must be valid if I'm to remain a believer in his tenure. It's a masterstroke if it's a message. Then and only then. He took a calculated risk with Lucas /SG and got his message across. If SG responds in a positive manner then it is indeed a masterstroke. We will learn more about this tonight from his attitude, I suppose.

Its was the whip instead of a carrot. Let's hope SG needed the whip. No way for us to know, right?

Its hell of a coinceidence that Gerrard goes off and other players up their game isnt it? But I cant be arsed to go thru the merits of him going off etc. we won, thats enough for me. But for the record, I dont give a **** what Steven Gerrard thinks or feels like. He got taken off, it happens to everyone, if he doesnt like it then he can **** off. Club over player every time.

[Craig_H]

Wht do you mean by

Just highlighted that it's just SOME things that are questionable, not everything.

[Dalglish]

Its hell of a coinceidence that Gerrard goes off and other players up their game isnt it? But I cant be arsed to go thru the merits of him going off etc. we won, thats enough for me. But for the record, I dont give a **** what Steven Gerrard thinks or feels like. He got taken off, it happens to everyone, if he doesnt like it then he can **** off. Club over player every time.

Is correct.

[Dalglish]

Just highlighted that it's just SOME things that are questionable, not everything.

And what are those SOME things

[Craig_H]

Like what?

Is it really rocket science? I've been banging on about it long enough...

Too cautious some of the time, not playing vastly superior players, seemingly prioritising the CL over the PL, signs of doing things just for the sake it and to emphasise who's the boss, rather than what might be the right decision... (Torres at Reading, for example)

[Craig_H]

If you look at it your way then we'll be ok because we will win most of our away games.

Sorry mate, but no it wont. Based on our current ratios, we wont amass over 90 points.