Whats the Point?

[Pacman]

I know you cant play them every game, you have to select the right games.

And that's where 'intelligent rotation' comes in. Something i've been referring to. It's not the rotation itself that's a problem, it's the fact that some of it hasnt been intelligent rotation.

For example, dropping Gerrard and Torres at Pompey wasnt intelligent. Pompey away isnt the game to drop them.

Brum at home is a different story, and whilst i've pinpointed that game, i cant really have a pop at Rafa for his team selection, because the side he picked should've been good enough. Whether that takes us to questions of motivation, is another story.

Reading in the CC was also a silly one. Yes Torres played and scored a wonderful hat trick, but even now, i dont think he should've played that game.

Most away games will require our matchwinners, shy of maybe the promoted sides and relegation fodder. Even then, that's only a maybe.

Rafa doesnt seem to rotate on those lines, he just rotates in an almost functional manner, like it's player x's 'turn' to miss out. He doesnt seem to take into account the actual game and level of difficulty attached to it.

That is a concern for me and ultimately, if it continues, i think it will damage our title bid considerably. If he changes it, i think we have a very good chance of winning the league.

Surprise, surprise I disagree with that statement

IMO he rotates them based on their energy levels during their preparation for the game. I don't think he basis his team selection on that fact that player X hasn't played for a few games. I can't argue at some of your points here however apart from maybe the motivation one.

[Neil Young]

I'm sure you do. I find it very 'Fahrenheit 451' like. Anybody who brings critique forward should have Der Process stuffed up his ass. We are simply all too stupid to have an informed opinion. (*prepares for the obvious "you are" remark). I love it! I can honestly say that it's the worst case of reversed kneejerk I ever read in my life. In Rafa we trust, huh?
The subtlety of whats transpiring on the pitch is simply too far beyond ud to even comment. We are all idiots. Why do you people even bother posting about football? Sir Bob and others in the past who pointed and said that GH was naked, should have been taken outside and shot! How dare they?



Regards
The Old Major

Speak for yourself. (It seemed a shame not to fulfil your desire. )

[Guest]

I'm not hitting panic buttons mate. But what i AM doing is saying that we need to identify the problem NOW, before it is too late.

Thing is, i'm not sure Rafa HAS identified the problem, or if he has, i'm not convinced he's willing to change his train of thought, in order to rectify the problem.

It's like anything, to solve the problem, you need to admit it and identify it quickly. That's what i would like to see happen before it's too late.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt mate. I've seen people saying he shouldn't have subbed Stevie but Lucas, his replacement won us the game. Will you call it lucky, if so on what ground ? Results have proved that Rafa has made the right decision, not for Stevie, but for the team.

As for the rest (not playing Torres for certain games), he's trying to juggle the team for the season.

Demento has persisted playing Tevez with Rooney, when every pundit under the sun have been saying they can't play together. I don't think Fergie cares. That is stubbornness alright too mate. We need a manager with character, thank **** we have one.

[The Glove]

Ending up 10 or more points behind isnt 'running the winners close' IMO.

So competing for the title down to the last 3/4 games isnt running them close? I suppose you'd only be happy if it came down to a Utd/Blackburn scenario at the least eh?

[Sir Bob]

First point I'll make.

We're unbeaten in the league.

Surely the most important thing at the moment?

Secondly, all this ****e about "not understanding Rafa's tactics" or his "substitutions", is exactly that - ****e.

You're not meant to ****ing understand them - Rafa and the team are (and do), so do yourselves (and everyone else) a favour and don't bother trying.

Us mere mortals, and opposition Managers/Teams are meant to be in the dark over his decisions. Surely that's the ****ing point? To do the unpredictable, and still get the result - which as I alluded to in my first point, we have got the results.

I don't see the problem, to be honest.

We're still picking up points, whilst at times not playing particulary well, which is a definite sign of a title winning/challenging side, so why all the moaning?

None of us know as much about football as we like to think we do. If we did, we sure as **** wouldn't be sitting on our arses writing about it on this place.

People like Rafa, Wenger, Mourinho (bye bye), Ferguson (whiskey nosed ****face) and any other manager worth their salt out there, study all facets of football, day in, day out, hours on end.

We, watch it. Read a bit about it on horse**** websites, and play ultrarealisticwowimreally****inggoodatthisya****** ** football games, and think we're "in the know."

We're not in the know, and never will have the same knowledge as the people out there actually "doing it", so the sooner some people accept that, and get back to doing what we're supposed to be doing - you know, ****ing supporting this team and the manager, then the easier and more enjoyable it becomes. Again.

Seriously, next time you want to question a man who's won the UEFA Cup, European Cup (and been runner up...) the Super Cup, won 2 League titles in a league that's regarded as the strongest in the world, won the FA Cup, been to the final of the Carling Cup and World Club Championship, signed some of the best players we've had at this club since we last won the league, and conducts himself with total dignity (unlike some sour miserable ********s I could mention), then do yourself a small favour...

Peel yourself from your stinking computer chair, take a deep breath, and remember - you're a ****ing idiot.

Whilst you make many valid points, its a rather simplistic view of the whole situation.
Does Rafa know more about football than me, of course he does. But that doesn't mean everything he does is right nor does it mean I shouldn't criticise him when I feel he's ballsed up.

On your premise we shouldn't criticse anyone who manages any club because inevitably they will know more about the game than me. take Souness for example, brilliant player, in footy all his life, won countless trophies with Rangers. so when he came to LFC & things started to go wrong, by your rules we shouldn't have criticised him. If forums had existed at the time and I had criticised him for buying Julian Dicks, you would have said what do you know about football compared to Souness, so don't you dare criticise him. Managers don't always get it right. Even the best make bad decisions and managers like souness, in my humble ill informed opinion, was far from being 1 of the best. Should Souness have been beyond criticism. By your rules, yes he would.

But back to Rafa, and I still back him 100% by the way, but its not only the 'uninformed' who criticise him at times. Many well respected pundits puzzle over his decisions at times.

So next time I consider Rafa makes a poor buy, poor team selection or poor substitution, please forgive me if I dare to criticise him. I don't know as much as he does about football, but that doesn't always make him right and me wrong.

[Craig_H]

I do think also we have the squad and the experience needed to win the league this season. It's the hardest part, psychologically, to win the league for the first time. That's why it's important that fans should stick with the team when they're playing ****e. Edginess in a players game is detriment to us playing well. That's where our full support (even though we think things should improve) is essential. That's not implying we're part of a RCDNW brigade.

Ah well, being a passionate fan can be difficult sometimes.

There's a difference between how one conducts themselves at the ground, and how they do so on a forum mate

If you think i dont get behind the team at the games, then you're incorrect.

[Neil Young]

I think Deadlogic's point about the irrelevance of anyone else understanding Rafa's tactics or substitutions is totally correct.

What matters is whether they work. We can argue over how we might define whether they're working (for a single game, is it the result or is the style of play important; for a season, is it the league position or the number of trophies or whether we've 'made progress' according to whatever criteria) but frankly, on Saturday they did work and to me that really is the end of the story for the derby.

[Guest]

I think Deadlogic's point about the irrelevance of anyone else understanding Rafa's tactics or substitutions is totally correct.

What matters is whether they work. We can argue over how we might define whether they're working (for a single game, is it the result or is the style of play important; for a season, is it the league position or the number of trophies or whether we've 'made progress' according to whatever criteria) but frankly, on Saturday they did work and to me that really is the end of the story for the derby.

Leave it to the younger lads to fight your cause. For your own sake & health.

Good post by the way.

[alunevans]

Nah not really mate but anyway, Ive come to the conclusion now that I dont give a **** how we play as long as we win. We're doing that so Im happy.

We exist to win trophies. Under Rafa, thats what we have done. Stick with Rafa and we will continue to do so. I know we all want the league and it will come. Ive waited long enough to see it as an adult so Im not getting carried away by demanding it this season. All any fan of any team can genuinely ask for is an improvement on the season before. No one has a right to demand a league title. League titles dont just happen, they take time and building. We have been **** for the best part of 20 years. Only once since before Rafa did we even look like winning the league, but in the last 3 years we have seen an improvement. The fact we are moaning about our best start in years kinda shows we have improved doesnt it?

The way people are carrying on you would think we are bottom of the league. We are in crisis obviously, I mean, how could we cope with Gerrard being taken off? Its a crisis so big it is only matched by losing to Arsenal in both cups last year, or a crisis so big that Torres was left on the bench against Birmingham. Or worse still both he and Gerrard didnt start away to Portsmouth. **** me its actually worse than losing to Burnley in the FA Cup. I mean, how could we carry on after that?

Ok we are not bang in form but so what? We are getting the points. Id rather we bumbled along now then hit form when it mattered than the other way around. The points are there so its good enough, not great but good enough.

I'm not demanding it this year either. I think turning us into a top 2 team is his next task, not to just go and win the league which i feel is unrealistic from where we are.

I'm skeptical of a good few of Rafa's decisions, and also what I gauge to be a conservative mentality when it comes to setting out his side. Those are major concerns for me but there's an awful lot he's done right too.

The way he replaced Sammi so seamlessly was genius. The fact we have such a quality keeper at last. The idea that the Kop can sing "we've got the best midfield in the world" (well, centre midfield) and it not be an ironic song. The fact that we have Torres. The fact that we won the European Cup, and he got us to the final again.

Which is why I'm not equating him with Ged or saying he should go, but he really does frustrate me. And I do worry whether his innate negativity will hold us back, and I'm really not convinced by the rotation. In fact, I think rotation helps us win cups, but doesn't help us win leagues.

[Craig_H]

So competing for the title down to the last 3/4 games isnt running them close? I suppose you'd only be happy if it came down to a Utd/Blackburn scenario at the least eh?

I'm not sure what question you need to ask here. I've already said what i consider to be 'close'.

10+ points isnt.

[Sarb]

If Rafa rotates and we're out of all competitions by March then IMO he will have a lot to answer for. No point rotating now and falling behind so far that we can't challenge

However, I am going to hold fire. Due to his rotation we have dropped silly points but we're still close so his logic could still work.

But DJS is right. He's not slating the club or the manager, just questioning some of his deicisons which is fair enough. I'm sure the likes of Parry, Gillett and Hicks have reviews with Rafa and ask him why he made certain decisions (eg put a £20m player on the bench, and I'm sure they trust his answer at the end of it). But there's no harm in raising the point or asking the question

[CAD]

Speak for yourself. (It seemed a shame not to fulfil your desire. )

From the poster CAD formely known as CtrlAltDelete

[Neil Young]

From the poster CAD formely known as CtrlAltDelete

[tomasjj]

But there's no harm in raising the point or asking the question

No, it isn't.
But it is all in the manner and wit it is done.

[AFII]

It would be a big surprise if we would end up winning the league this season because our squad isn't good enough yet. It's still holes in it, like the left back position, or a back up to Carra and Agger, a quality winger and an excellent attacking playmaker.

We are also ****ed if Reina gets injured because our whole system is based on his sweeping behind the back four. As soon as Reina hasn't played the last seasons our defense has looked like schoolboys.

We will win the title when we have a good enough squad without holes in it but that will take time because quality costs money, money that Rafa hasn't had before this season.

It's not exactly rocket science that all the richest clubs top the league. If you want to win the league then you need quality all over the pitch. Give Rafa two, three years and we will have that.