Whats the Point?

[bigfooty]

It would be a big surprise if we would end up winning the league this season because our squad isn't good enough yet. It's still holes in it, like the left back position, or a back up to Carra and Agger, a quality winger and an excellent attacking playmaker.

We are also ****ed if Reina gets injured because our whole system is based on his sweeping behind the back four. As soon as Reina hasn't played the last seasons our defense has looked like schoolboys.

We will win the title when we have a good enough squad without holes in it but that will take time because quality costs money, money that Rafa hasn't had before this season.

It's not exactly rocket science that all the richest clubs top the league. If you want to win the league then you need quality all over the pitch. Give Rafa two, three years and we will have that.

So you're basically saying Rafa cannot win the league unless he's given another, what, 80M? Or more? So suddenly he's gone from a tactical genius to a guy who is completely reliant on having more money than the next manager?

[marcus50bucks]

Alright Marcus. How's it going?!

Yeah we kicked Fat Dunk's a*se even though he did kick us off in the end

I'm just about ok mate. Hope all is well with you. Back at uni now doing a PGCE in ICT. Mate, I never realised how stressful the course would be. I only started in september but the workload is already driving me mad. It will all be worth it in the end though. I still can't imagine myself becoming a secondary school teacher.lol


Are you still working for the council?

PS- I knew my days were numbered at Koptalk long before I got booted off. This sites much better though imo.

[AFII]

So you're basically saying Rafa cannot win the league unless he's given another, what, 80M? Or more? So suddenly he's gone from a tactical genius to a guy who is completely reliant on having more money than the next manager?

I don't know how much money he needs but yes, we won't win the league if Rafa don't buy quality players to the positions we need.

Every manager that want to win the league need a hell of a lot of money to do it, not just Rafa.

If a manager is excellent like Rafa then he won't need as much money as Souness for example.

The fact is that you can't win the league without spending a lot of money.

You can't win the league if only have one the three things you need.

A lot of money, an excellent manager and an excellent squad. You need all three.

[dirty_sanchez]

It would be a big surprise if we would end up winning the league this season because our squad isn't good enough yet. It's still holes in it, like the left back position, or a back up to Carra and Agger, a quality winger and an excellent attacking playmaker.

We are also ****ed if Reina gets injured because our whole system is based on his sweeping behind the back four. As soon as Reina hasn't played the last seasons our defense has looked like schoolboys.

We will win the title when we have a good enough squad without holes in it but that will take time because quality costs money, money that Rafa hasn't had before this season.

It's not exactly rocket science that all the richest clubs top the league. If you want to win the league then you need quality all over the pitch. Give Rafa two, three years and we will have that.

United won the league last year with a side which was unchanged from the one of the season before. It's nothing to do with how much money you spend, it's to do with getting what you have to perform as a unit. Our first team and United's first team didn't cost a vastly different sum of money if you do the maths and we've arguably got better strength in depth than them.

[Frank Leroux]

I am a big Rafa fan but dont mind people questioning his management skills when he does something wrong. What really annoys me is the people who bring up the same arguments in nearly every thread harping on about the exact same things they have stated about 100 times.
I have ignored a few people but unfortunately due to them never shutting up about the same things, others feel they have to get involved to defend Rafa. This can make a decent thread turn into another boring discussion about rotation or whatever the new black is at the time.
My days at work are boring enough would be nice if some of the people on here changed the record for at least a week.

Good post.

I left this thread at about post 200, I think I had said all I had to contribute.

When you get a contentious issue like this it is so easy for one's opinions/arguements to spiral into a place where you become dogmatic, defensive and abusive. There'll be no winning this type of discussion. Not now anyway. If we win the title this year, next year, under Benitez, I'll be proven wrong. If we don't win it there'll be plenty of scapegoats knocking around as to the why it didn't work out. Benitez will only be one of many. And that collection of theories, in the end, might well be the truth of the matter.

At which point, I'd like to congratulate DJS for his (?) marathon defense of his position against all-comers.

It's what this thread was all about.

Frank.

[AFII]

United won the league last year with a side which was unchanged from the one of the season before. It's nothing to do with how much money you spend, it's to do with getting what you have to perform as a unit. Our first team and United's first team didn't cost a vastly different sum of money if you do the maths and we've arguably got better strength in depth than them.

United had quality all over the pitch. I hate them but that is the sad truth. They had the quality already and they paid big money for it so why sign a lot of players if you don't need to?

Can you name one weak position in their team last season? I can't. I hate Neville but he is an excellent right back.

[Sarb]

I'm just about ok mate. Hope all is well with you. Back at uni now doing a PGCE in ICT. Mate, I never realised how stressful the course would be. I only started in september but the workload is already driving me mad. It will all be worth it in the end though. I still can't imagine myself becoming a secondary school teacher.lol


Are you still working for the council?

PS- I knew my days were numbered at Koptalk long before I got booted off. This sites much better though imo.

Good stuff mate. I remember you saying you were going to start back at Uni. Don't worry mate, It'll be worth it in the end.

Nah I left the Council a year ago. Was too laid back for me. Work in Derby still but for a local train maker/refurber. You probably know who I mean. Well I'm leaving here in three weeks as it's proper rubbish

All else is good. Started my own business recently which is going steady. I've posted a link on the 'starting own business' post in 'The Library'

[akjs123]

then again, did you see the state of the teams united were putting out at the end of last season. they looked dreadful on paper. but they played the right way and got results.

sometimes i think, while personnel is important, we overdo the personnel thing which leads to the "we're just three players short" scenario.

i tend to think pattern of play is at least as important. united's side during the title run in wasn't great. i could certainly pick holes in them. but they still played really well and played the game properly, shifting the ball about with tempo.

Alun, United's teams were getting results because they had matchwinning attacking players in Rooney and Ronaldo. We had Gerrard who goalscoring form hasnt been great since the 05-06 season and Garcia who got injured in January. Now we have Torres and hopefully Benayoun will be another.
The threat those 2 put against most premiership teams meant that dealing with those 2 gave space to other players to play their game.
Take for example our game vs Everton. If we had Torres playing, would Gollum have dared play such a high line or would Lescott be running down the flank as he was. They would not have been able to restrict our play as they did resulting in us playing better. Also take into account we had Alonso and Agger missing both of whom are essential to our passing game.

[CAD]

Remember you well. Keep on posting the opinions mate. You talk a lot of sense even if people do take it the wrong way!

Cheers, mate.

I realise that I do point to the negative more often than not. I just think it more interesting to debate the problems rather than repeating "Alonso is a wonderful player" in 124229 different ways. A few posters obviously have a problem with that. That said, I haven't had (m)any problems with any of my favorite posters here. And I actually have a lot of favorite posters that I always read here on Est.

[Imy]

Alun, United's teams were getting results because they had matchwinning attacking players in Rooney and Ronaldo. We had Gerrard who goalscoring form hasnt been great since the 05-06 season and Garcia who got injured in January. Now we have Torres and hopefully Benayoun will be another.
The threat those 2 put against most premiership teams meant that dealing with those 2 gave space to other players to play their game.
Take for example our game vs Everton. If we had Torres playing, would Gollum have dared play such a high line or would Lescott be running down the flank as he was. They would not have been able to restrict our play as they did resulting in us playing better. Also take into account we had Alonso and Agger missing both of whom are essential to our passing game.

The lack of match winners is what is hurting us, if our midfielders/second strikers could chip in with 10-20 goals, then we would be in a much more healthy position.

Why don't they get the goals is the question? is it because Rafa is overly cautious bordering on negative?

[bigfooty]

A lot of money, an excellent manager and an excellent squad. You need all three.

The starting XI Wenger put out last night, arguably his best, cost less than 35M to assemble. They were all signed either 6 months before Rafa joined us, or since he joined, with the exception of Toure.

Rafa's best side of his own signings cost us around 75M and to make it a full team you still have to include Carra because he hasn't signed a decent RB that is at the club or more than one decent CB.

Of course Arsenal could end up imploding, struggling in the cold winter months, but I think it's fair to say that we couldn't put out a side that cost that little and smash a European team 7-0 playing football they are capable of. I mean, Torres alone cost 23M.

It's also worth mentioning that the team that played last night included just 2 players from the squad that played on the final day of Arsenal's 2003-2004 season, the one where they won the title unbeaten.

Please, for once, would people accept that you don't need to spend ridiculous sums of money to be a real contender.

[dirty_sanchez]

United had quality all over the pitch. I hate them but that is the sad truth. They had the quality already and they paid big money for it so why sign a lot of players if you don't need to?

Can you name one weak position in their team last season? I can't. I hate Neville but he is an excellent right back.

Bad example. They didn't pay big money for Neville did they? Also, they did spend big money on players that they evidently don't need, the likes of Anderson, Nani, Hargreaves etc. If you look back on when Manchester United's real success started, it was when they took their excellent youth team and built on it a bit at a time.

[Imy]

Bad example. They didn't pay big money for Neville did they? Also, they did spend big money on players that they evidently don't need, the likes of Anderson, Nani, Hargreaves etc. If you look back on when Manchester United's real success started, it was when they took their excellent youth team and built on it a bit at a time.

Their excellent youth team won the league in their first full season together as first choice players, remember Jockey 'you won't win things with youngsters'

[dirty_sanchez]

Their excellent youth team won the league in their first full season together as first choice players, remember Jockey 'you won't win things with youngsters'

Exactly. Now admittedly the game has changed since then, but United have always been there or thereabouts because Ferguson goes by evolution not revolution. The team we've got now does have a few gaps in it as AFII says, but after a few years, this team should be good enough to win the title.

[marcus50bucks]

Good stuff mate. I remember you saying you were going to start back at Uni. Don't worry mate, It'll be worth it in the end.

Nah I left the Council a year ago. Was too laid back for me. Work in Derby still but for a local train maker/refurber. You probably know who I mean. Well I'm leaving here in three weeks as it's proper rubbish

All else is good. Started my own business recently which is going steady. I've posted a link on the 'starting own business' post in 'The Library'

Top stuff mate, I just visited the link. I like the look of it mate. I really hope the business progresses even further mate. It's always good to hear people views on how to start a business.