If we don't finish 2nd this year.....

[AFII]

No one can really be realistic when they think that we should be able to win the league this season.

Rafa hasn't had the money to sign his first choice players more than one window. If we win the league then it's a huge bonus but if you are realistic then it's one, two years to early.

Rafa will sign more high quality players like Torres but we are not Chelsea and can't afford to sign everyone in one window or pay silly money for players.

Give Rafa time and he will buy high quality players and fill the holes in the starting XI.

[Dhav]

Indeed they did

I don't think we're necessarily that far off where we want to be. It depends how successfully we establish a good pattern of play, if we develop a good system and team ethic to take into next season then we will be in with a great chance. Not that I think we're out of it this season by any means.

I dont think we're out of it yet either. 6 pts at this stage of the season when traditionally under Rafa we've been the best performing side from Nov onwards certainly gives us a fighting chance. If you believe that Man U are the favourites for the league, then the deficit is 6 pts but with a game in hand, and we've yet to play them. But if we do have title pretentions then we need to get moving asap and we need a marked improvement on what we've produced thus far.

Wonder where it's all gone wrong since the Villa game. On that performance, that spirit, that unity, I was certain we'd be fighting it out for the title this season

[Graybach]

I'm ****in colour blind mate! What the **** is thant meant to be?

[Dhav]

No one can really be realistic when they think that we should be able to win the league this season.

Rafa hasn't had the money to sign his first choice players more than one window. If we win the league then it's a huge bonus but if you are realistic then it's one, two years to early.

Rafa will sign more high quality players like Torres but we are not Chelsea and can't afford to sign everyone in one window or pay silly money for players.

Give Rafa time and he will buy high quality players and fill the holes in the starting XI.

Yes AF, I agree with you, but my concern is can we win the league with Rafa's preferred style of play? I'm not sure we can. We seem incapable of counter-attacking with pace the way Man U and Arsenal can - I think that is a big problem

[einar]

Where did you get that picture?

[AFII]

Yes AF, I agree with you, but my concern is can we win the league with Rafa's preferred style of play? I'm not sure we can. We seem incapable of counter-attacking with pace the way Man U and Arsenal can - I think that is a big problem

Rafa has been after better players that would make us play better without any doubt at all but has been priced out or the player joined another club.

Alves, Aguero, Walcott, Owen, Vidic to name a few.

You can only sign high quality players if you have the money to do it.

If you look at our young players then I doubt that any PL club can show up the same amount of talent as us, not even Arsenal.

Rafa has done a good job so far if you look at the whole picture.

[HotSwine]

Where did you get that picture?

It's from a spreadsheet I started under Houllier's reign - I was interested to see the trends in our form season to season.:nerd:

[einar]

It's from a spreadsheet I started under Houllier's reign - I was interested to see the trends in our form season to season.:nerd:

It only goes up to 90 points. You should be more optimistic.

Where do you get the stats?

[HotSwine]

It only goes up to 90 points. You should be more optimistic.

Where do you get the stats?

I update the spreadsheet with the result after each game. I got the stats for the 2001/02 season from the offal (I started in the 2002/03 season).

[Graybach]

I update the spreadsheet with the result after each game. I got the stats for the 2001/02 season from the offal (I started in the 2002/03 season).

Good man

Now do the same for Chelski, Scum and Arse and compare them to us from December

Oh, and don't use colours as I can't tell the ****in difference!

[akjs123]

Why is everyone forgetting we have lost Torres, Agger and Xabi for over a month and all at the same time. When scum lost Rooney + Ronaldo to suspension, they struggled and so did Chelsea last year when they lost Cech and Terry and even this year. I think people need to realise that if a team like Chelsea that won back to back titles came 2nd due to injuries to Terry and Cech then it is unrealistic for us to win the title this season given our injuries affect us far worse.
When Kewell came on today, it showed how we had been missing our best winger (when fit) for so long and we would be so much better going forward if he can stay fit. Imagine a team with a fit Torres, Alonso, Agger and Kewell.

[HotSwine]

Good man

Now do the same for Chelski, Scum and Arse and compare them to us from December

Oh, and don't use colours as I can't tell the ****in difference!

Just for you, here's the table of data...

	Premiership Points				
Game	2001/02	2002/03	2003/04	2004/05	2005/06	2006/07	2007/08
1	3	3	0	1	1	1	3
2	3	6	1	4	4	4	4
3	3	7	2	4	5	4	7
4	6	8	5	7	6	4	10
5	9	9	8	7	7	7	11
6	12	12	11	10	7	10	12
7	13	15	11	10	10	10	15
8	16	18	11	13	10	11	16
9	19	21	11	16	13	11	19
10	22	24	14	17	16	14	20
11	23	27	17	17	19	17	21
12	26	30	17	20	22	17	
13	29	30	18	20	25	18	
14	32	31	21	23	28	21	
15	33	31	22	24	31	22	
16	33	31	22	24	34	25	
17	33	31	25	25	37	28	
18	36	31	26	28	40	31	
19	37	32	29	31	41	34	
20	38	33	32	34	44	34	
21	38	34	32	34	44	37	
22	39	34	33	37	45	40	
23	40	35	34	37	45	43	
24	43	38	35	37	45	46	
25	46	39	38	40	48	49	
26	49	42	39	43	51	50	
27	52	43	39	43	54	50	
28	53	43	42	43	55	53	
29	56	46	45	44	55	53	
30	59	49	46	47	58	54	
31	62	52	49	50	61	57	
32	65	52	49	50	64	60	
33	68	55	49	51	67	61	
34	71	58	50	54	70	64	
35	74	61	53	54	73	67	
36	74	64	56	55	76	67	
37	77	64	59	55	79	67	
38	80	64	60	58	82	68	

[Graybach]

Just for you, here's the table of data...

	Premiership Points				
Game	2001/02	2002/03	2003/04	2004/05	2005/06	2006/07	2007/08
1	3	3	0	1	1	1	3
2	3	6	1	4	4	4	4
3	3	7	2	4	5	4	7
4	6	8	5	7	6	4	10
5	9	9	8	7	7	7	11
6	12	12	11	10	7	10	12
7	13	15	11	10	10	10	15
8	16	18	11	13	10	11	16
9	19	21	11	16	13	11	19
10	22	24	14	17	16	14	20
11	23	27	17	17	19	17	21
12	26	30	17	20	22	17	
13	29	30	18	20	25	18	
14	32	31	21	23	28	21	
15	33	31	22	24	31	22	
16	33	31	22	24	34	25	
17	33	31	25	25	37	28	
18	36	31	26	28	40	31	
19	37	32	29	31	41	34	
20	38	33	32	34	44	34	
21	38	34	32	34	44	37	
22	39	34	33	37	45	40	
23	40	35	34	37	45	43	
24	43	38	35	37	45	46	
25	46	39	38	40	48	49	
26	49	42	39	43	51	50	
27	52	43	39	43	54	50	
28	53	43	42	43	55	53	
29	56	46	45	44	55	53	
30	59	49	46	47	58	54	
31	62	52	49	50	61	57	
32	65	52	49	50	64	60	
33	68	55	49	51	67	61	
34	71	58	50	54	70	64	
35	74	61	53	54	73	67	
36	74	64	56	55	76	67	
37	77	64	59	55	79	67	
38	80	64	60	58	82	68	

I can make sense of it now.

So the last two seasons we've scored the same amount of points in the first and second halves of the season.

But if you go from December onwards, this year from game 14, we've scored 57 points(05/06) and 50 points(06/07).

We could be going into game 14 with possibly 27 points already (more than the other two seasons)

If the trend continues we can look to have hopefully about 84 points at the end of the season. Not bad but maybe not enough. Last two leagues have been won on 89 points and 91 points.

However, if we're in contention towards the end it will give us more confidence and we'll play better, and we'll be putting pressure on our rivals!

Add that to maybe not being in Europe and strengthening in January and it look good.

In conclusion, WE'RE GONNA WIN THE LEAGUE! WE'RE GONNA WIN THE LEAGUE!!

[alunevans]

I'm ****in colour blind mate! What the **** is thant meant to be?

i'm not colour blind but i think you said what we were all thinking but didn't want to say cos he'd gone to so much effort

[alunevans]

Just for you, here's the table of data...

	Premiership Points				
Game	2001/02	2002/03	2003/04	2004/05	2005/06	2006/07	2007/08
1	3	3	0	1	1	1	3
2	3	6	1	4	4	4	4
3	3	7	2	4	5	4	7
4	6	8	5	7	6	4	10
5	9	9	8	7	7	7	11
6	12	12	11	10	7	10	12
7	13	15	11	10	10	10	15
8	16	18	11	13	10	11	16
9	19	21	11	16	13	11	19
10	22	24	14	17	16	14	20
11	23	27	17	17	19	17	21
12	26	30	17	20	22	17	
13	29	30	18	20	25	18	
14	32	31	21	23	28	21	
15	33	31	22	24	31	22	
16	33	31	22	24	34	25	
17	33	31	25	25	37	28	
18	36	31	26	28	40	31	
19	37	32	29	31	41	34	
20	38	33	32	34	44	34	
21	38	34	32	34	44	37	
22	39	34	33	37	45	40	
23	40	35	34	37	45	43	
24	43	38	35	37	45	46	
25	46	39	38	40	48	49	
26	49	42	39	43	51	50	
27	52	43	39	43	54	50	
28	53	43	42	43	55	53	
29	56	46	45	44	55	53	
30	59	49	46	47	58	54	
31	62	52	49	50	61	57	
32	65	52	49	50	64	60	
33	68	55	49	51	67	61	
34	71	58	50	54	70	64	
35	74	61	53	54	73	67	
36	74	64	56	55	76	67	
37	77	64	59	55	79	67	
38	80	64	60	58	82	68	

interesting stats showing that under Rafa the 2nd half of the year is actually a carbon copy of the 1st half of the year. So in 8 games time we should be able to have a really good guide as to our points tally.

but also showing that rafa is doing better at this stage of the season than he's ever done. weird huh.