Lots of negative stuff about Rafa

[calvoboy]

I wish he'd play Crouch more. I wish he'd he'd sell Kuyt, Momo and Riise.

According to Bascombe your wish will be granted in January, at least on Momo and Riise. Kuyt is here to stay, and rightly so, though he should never be played on his own up front and should never be paired with Voronin.

Crouch will probably leave in January too.

[Reece]

I still love Rafa

[Guest]

According to Bascombe your wish will be granted in January, at least on Momo and Riise. Kuyt is here to stay, and rightly so, though he should never be played on his own up front, and should never be paired with Voronin.

Where did you see that ?

[calvoboy]

Where did you see that ?

My mate (non-LFC) asked me last night what I thought about Riise, Momo and Crouch going in January. I said I hadn't heard anything and that it was probably tabloid bollocks. I asked him who wrote it and apparently it was Bascombe in the NOTW.

[fred_plasticine]

Agreed. Rafa seems to like squeezing the life out of teams defensively. If he wanted to play free flowing attack at all costs football wouldnt we have 2 genuine out and out wingers playing every week. Also with Riisee and Hyppia amongst others we arent exactly blessed with speed.

no he doesn't want free flowing attacking football. he wants us to keep it tight, stop the oponent from creating anything by not allowing them possession in the first place. he wants us to keep the ball, pass it neatly, build up the pressure and score or attack on the break. tell you want, if played to perfection that kinda football is just as stunning as all of that overhyped one touch free flowing sexy total football thingy. pitty though that we don't play it to perfection ...

[einar]

What really concerns me is the instincts, or the lack of it, of the players he's signed to pass and move.

Take Mascherano for example. For Argentina he's always showing for ball and popping up in the box from time to time, and left and right midfield. They play a fluid pass and move style and he looks at home in it even though he's the holding midfielder. Yet for us he rarely gets forward and you often see him look to pass the ball forward and there's no option on so it goes back.

Is it the lack of pace in the side, lack of movement, or lack of skill?

Of is it the way Rafa wants us to play?

Which leads me to my next question; are Rafa's tactical instructions restricting our attacking freedom?

He also coaches the first team. Yet why is it that we seem to be so far behind the Arse and scum in particular in passing and moving fluidly? Our team shape seems to be so rigid, the only player who moves around is Gerrard when he plays behind the front man and Benayoun when he plays. It makes us easy to defend against.

Bottom line is that we don't score enough goals to win the league. A simplistic view might be that it's down to having some of our best players out and that it's also tactical, but is it deeper rooted in the club psyche? I suspect it might be.

I think these are the key questions to ask.

I absolutely refuse to believe that Rafa wants us to play the way we are playing. I also think the players have every chance to play better within Rafas tactics. I dont think any other manager would be getting very freeflowing attacking football out of our fit players now. For me, Rafa is clearly trying to improve the team and their game and it is slowly getting better.

I think it is very much down to getting the players in who can do the job.
I know Wenger can do this by buying children and making them into players but if you look at any other team it is full of very expensive attacking players, players that we have not until now been able to afford.

And I think Rafa has shown that he can buy top class attacking players by going for Torres. Not many where predicting who well he would do and how soon.

[captainfog]

...of coaching attacking football/attacking players? I've been going on like a broken record the last couple of days, but it bothers me that, despite an undoubtedly better squad, we're every bit as inept in attack as we were two years ago.

Being able to score a couple of goals here and there would do us a great deal of good. How many points have been unnecessarily dropped over the past two-plus seasons due to our inability to score goals? People go on about how poor the squad was when Rafa inherited it, but it only took him a season to turn our defense into the league's meanest, while our attack has made, essentially, no progress whatsoever...

I would also like to raise the question of whether or not the consistent failures of our attacking players are the result of an amazing string of bad luck with players, or does it possibly reflect on Rafa's coaching and the style of football he employs? I'm starting to believe it's the latter, as the law of averages dictates that some good luck would have come about by now. I won't include Kewell in the analysis because of his injury problems, nor will I include Baros because he left the club immediately after Rafa's first season. But, looking at the attacking players who have been with us since Rafa came, it seems that only Crouch and Garcia have had any sort of success under him, and Garcia is off to Atleti and it seems that Rafa's in the process of running Crouch out of town as well. The other attacking players that come to mind...Cisse, Pongolle, Morientes, Zenden, Gonzalez all haven't cut it. Pennant hasn't quite cut it. Kuyt, if anything, has gotten worse since he's been here. I can't believe that he was as bad a player as he's been for us lately when he was scoring goals for fun at Feyenoord. Babel's struggling. Voronin, after looking like a useful player in the beginning, has turned to ****. Leto's given us nothing so far. Gerrard's been in an offensive funk since the 05-06 season. And I wouldn't be surprised if Rafa manages to turn a silk purse into a sow's ear with Torres by season's end.

I'm starting to doubt that we'll ever become a potent attacking side under Rafa. And I'm starting to doubt that any attacking player we sign will have any success playing for us. Arsene Wenger took boring boring Arsenal and turned them into a superb footballing side in less than two seasons. Rafa's now in his fourth year with us and we've made no progress. I'm not asking for us to produce breathtaking stuff every time we touch the ball...I'd just like to see us score a few goals that come about because of our play, not in spite of it. I'd like to see our players actually moving when we have the ball in the opposing half. I'd like to see us create chances and present some danger before we're in the 85th minute and it sets in that, once again, we're about to lose to or draw with a lesser side.

I'm just really ****ing frustrated. If we don't finish within 10 points of the top, and don't manage more than 60 goals, Rafa's got to go...I'll always be grateful for the Champions' League run, and the memorable FA Cup run in 05-06, but our football has been embarrassing the last couple of years, and we're simply not getting the results to justify it.

another thread questioning Rafa's ability.......

how original :whatever:

[thekop]

I don't think it's quite a matter of being incapable.
It's more a matter of defensive tactics, and stubborness.

Wenger and Ferguson believe that you need fluidity and attack minded players to win games, but Rafa believes in Defense first.

Both philosophies can result in the same result, although I'd prefer us to play like the other red teams mentioned above.

A good valid point fowlen

[kewellnthegang]

I don't think it's quite a matter of being incapable.
It's more a matter of defensive tactics, and stubborness.

Wenger and Ferguson believe that you need fluidity and attack minded players to win games, but Rafa believes in Defense first.

Both philosophies can result in the same result, although I'd prefer us to play like the other red teams mentioned above.

and we have after all won more than arsenal have over the last 3 years

[fowlen]

1. Do you think Rafa is asking them not to play good football?

2. Rafa would probably resign before giving up rotation. Plus we dont know that that is the cause of our bad form.

3. Again, that is you assumption that others would do better.

4. Again, we dont know that Crouch, Lucas or any other then those who are injured would do any better.

5. Plus Benny is playing more and more and doing fine.

6. Another very big assumption.

7. Why would you sack a manager at this time when history tells us that many of the best managers in the history of the game where in the very same position as Rafa is in now. Some of them are our own past greats.

Fact is Rafa has shown that he can compete with the best, by winning twice in Spain and the CL with mediocre teams. I dont know, sacking him now could be a very good thing. But it could also be the biggest mistake in the history of our beloved club.

1. Rafa is not asking anyone not to try play good football, but our negative and defensive tactics certainly contribute towards us being dull. Also when selecting certain players who cannot pass a ball prevents good football from being played.

2. No-one said rotation was the root of our current problems, but it mus be very frustrating for certain players and a playing a settled side where players understand each other would possibly help?

3. The only way to find out for certain is to give them a run?

4. No we don't, but is their any harm changing or trying something different to try kick start the team?

5. Yes he is, but he is in and out and probably needs a fw games to show ppl exactly what he can or cannot do!

6. Maybe so

7. If a manager looses the faith of the supporters and team then it is time to go, no matter who they are or what they have achieved.

PS I never said he should be sacked, but if results and performances don't improve he'll loose the confidence and faith of many and his position may then be very difficult....and a change may be needed.

[AFII]

I think it is very much down to getting the players in who can do the job.

He has been after a quality right wing back for years. He has tried to sign an attacking playmaker for years.

I think that points to that he want to play 4-2-3-1 with the fullbacks overlapping very much on the wings.

We just don't have good enough fullbacks or a good enough attacking playmaker to play that system in an excellent way yet.

[einar]

1. Rafa is not asking anyone not to try play good football, but our negative and defensive tactics certainly contribute towards us being dull. Also when selecting certain players who cannot pass a ball prevents good football from being played.

2. No-one said rotation was the root of our current problems, but it mus be very frustrating for certain players and a playing a settled side where players understand each other would possibly help?

3. The only way to find out for certain is to give them a run?

4. No we don't, but is their any harm changing or trying something different to try kick start the team?

5. Yes he is, but he is in and out and probably needs a fw games to show ppl exactly what he can or cannot do!

6. Maybe so

7. If a manager looses the faith of the supporters and team then it is time to go, no matter who they are or what they have achieved.

PS I never said he should be sacked, but if results and performances don't improve he'll loose the confidence and faith of many and his position may then be very difficult....and a change may be needed.

1. I assume we are talking about Crouch and Lucas here. Crouch is not well suited to good football because of his lack of pace. And IMO we needed Momos presence for this particular game. Plus there where other reasons.

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=rafa-benitez-defends-peter-crouch-decision%26method=full%26objectid=20063018%26page=1%26siteid=50061-name_page.html

As for tactics we attacked on 4 players instead of 5 but that should have been enough to win it and also could have been the reason we kept a clean sheet.

2. I am sure it can be frustrating for some players but for me the pros far out weigh the cons in this matter. He did it in Spain. In the last part of the season his players where fit and fresh and won it in the end. I know that you cant loose to much ground at the start but we have not.

3. Rafa sees them in training, and in the reserves and in practice matches. We just dont know as well as he does.

4. I dont know, do you?

5. He only needs to show Rafa what he can do and I think he has.

7. First of all. Rafa has not lost the confidence of the team. At the very bottom of our dip Mascherano, one of a very few players in our team who is truly world class, said that he was willing to commit his long term future to Liverpool. That for me says allot.

As for the fans, or anyone other then his players, his staff and the board, he does not need to answer to them. What they think should have no bearing on Rafa being sacked or not.

[Red_hot]

I'm really bored with all these moaning about Rafa threads now.

[kewellnthegang]

I'm really bored with all these moaning about Rafa threads now.

wimmin talkin sense

whatever next

[redlancer]

lets see

we've just got the investment we need to buy the players we need

but Rafa didn't buy them all in the transfer window as 11 games in we haven't won the league.

plus he spends 20M on a player that pulls a muscle

then he allows 2 or our most important players to break thier toes.

he's got to go

FFS

you can argue that we are only now in a position to start building to challenge for the PL as we have now only just got the financial backing
so after all these years we panic and sack him after 11 games.

the team still needs strengthening and some deadwood casting out. Just cos we've had the finances for one transfer window doesn't mean we can get all the pieces in that window.

And as for just playing attractive footy - if we're not firing on all cylinders and have our best players available then grinding out results is more than acceptable. IF you just want attacking footy go and look at Newcastle's trophy room.
An away draw to Blackburn who are on form when the top 2 draw is still keeping us in the slip stream.

and all this 11 games in and we're behind blackburn - they are a good team and its where we are come may.

We have to give Rafa atleast 2 years with the backing of the new owners.