Lots of negative stuff about Rafa

[Frank Leroux]

I was at Anfield for the 2 visits of Valencia one in europe and one as a friendly.

They were aguably the best 2 performances off an away team at anfield and this was around the time Arsenal we cited as the best attacking team.

then the away match in Valencia - they made us look like amatures 1st 20 minutes.

That's the only difference i see now - we either haven't got the confidence or the players to go all out 1st 20 minutes to win the game.

Rafa had good wingers at Valencia and used them - not exactly out of the 10men behind the ball book?

when things arn't up to speed you can't be gung ho about tactics.

Thing is though.....

In his three years at Valencia they had the best defensive record in the league - so that's good, but in two of those years they scored only 51 & 56 goals (the 51 coming in the year they won their first La Liga title - one of the lowest champions' totals ever).

Now, granted, the third season they scored 71 goals (much more like it) with Mista playing out of his skin, but I'm not convinced that Benitez's Valencia were the free flowing, 'attack-minded' team we all remember from our encounters.

[einar]

Thing is though.....

In his three years at Valencia they had the best defensive record in the league - so that's good, but in two of those years they scored only 51 & 56 goals (the 51 coming in the year they won their first La Liga title - one of the lowest champions' totals ever).

Now, granted, the third season they scored 71 goals (much more like it) with Mista playing out of his skin, but I'm not convinced that Benitez's Valencia were the free flowing, 'attack-minded' team we all remember from our encounters.

"Returning to coaching in 2000, Benitez was a revelation at Tenerife, helping them pip Atletico Madrid to promotion, and it came as little surprise that Valencia were soon courting him.

Valencia are a compact unit, lacking in star names but overflowing with desire.

They won the league in Benitez's first year in charge, building on the solid foundations left by Cuper and adding a touch of attacking flair. "

http://www.4thegame.com/features/feature/155803/.html

I am not saying he is ever gonna be like Wenger, but I am sure he is gonna show us more attacking flair in the future.

[red g]

United has been hit harder this year by injury than us??
So far we have had Carra, Agger, Aurelio, Arbeloa, Pennant, Alonso, Sissoko, Gerrard, Kewell and Torres out injured this year.
How did United play when they had Rooney and Ronaldo out?

exactly the difference is that ALL our creativity has been out, **** hargreaves, carrick etc. when there creativity was missing they were pish.

we are missing all our talented players

[Jazzmaster]

1. I think is shows more how easily people a sucked into the media nonsense.
Rafa is just under pressure from the media and people are buying into that.
He has presented a long term plan to the board and they will judge him on how well that plan is moving along.

2. The man is nothing short of a tactical genius. And almost everyone in the game agrees. Tactics can only do so much when players are not performing to their standards. To say that Rafas tactics where wrong on Saturday is your opinion, but to say that the tactics where wrong in a game where we kept a clean sheet and had plenty of chances to win is rather harsh IMO.

3. Did Rafa tell you this?

4. I would not call Sami Hyypia no cover.

5. He did bring in Torres, and you cant fix it all in one window.

6. If someone told you rotation would take away all injuries they where lying. It should reduce them but that is all. And the broken bones where not the cause of the players playing to much.

7. You speak as if Rafa said to us in the beginning. "I rotate my players so they will never be injured"
There are many reasons to rotate. And always playing your strongest team is not a policy Rafa thinks is the best way to go.
The fact that it worked in Spain is indeed prof that it will work anywhere. Spain is one of the strongest leagues in the world and keeping players fit and fresh is good in any league.
And that Valencia won the Spanish League twice with inferior sides is proof that it does indeed work.

8. What does he have to do to "prove his merit" to you?

Look, I want rafa to succeed as much as anyone, but to counter my post with this 'rafa can do no wrong' crap is really looking at the current situation through rose tinted spectacles. We are not challenging for the league at the moment FACT. Nor are we without hope of a title challenge at the moment also FACT. All I am putting forth is that we are in a mini-crisis at the moment and it may all pan out fine at the end of the day. But then again it may not. If we continue to play as we have been we will certainly not be challenging for much. The buck stops with the manager and i have yet to see how his vision will lead us to No 19. He may be a tactical genius in europe but he is no such genius in the premierleague.

The fact that rotation works in spain does not automatically mean it will work in England. To win the league twice in spain is impressive but rafa has yet to show his ability to win the english league. To say otherwise is tantamount to blind faith. I am not opposed to rotation per se, And i agree that the media obsession puts it too much in the minds of people as the root of all problems which of course is bull****. but i think it needs to be used more frugally to allow to team to be more effective.

By the way i am a huge advocate of not buying into the media and getting caught up in their agendas. My post is entirely formed from my own views on matters.

[redlancer]

Thing is though.....

In his three years at Valencia they had the best defensive record in the league - so that's good, but in two of those years they scored only 51 & 56 goals (the 51 coming in the year they won their first La Liga title - one of the lowest champions' totals ever).

Now, granted, the third season they scored 71 goals (much more like it) with Mista playing out of his skin, but I'm not convinced that Benitez's Valencia were the free flowing, 'attack-minded' team we all remember from our encounters.

they played us off the pitch and tore us apart not something you think off with a defensive team.

[alunevans]

We have to give Rafa atleast 2 years with the backing of the new owners.

Even with my skepticism, I'd agree with that (barring a 5th or below finish of course).

[badpiggy]

another thread questioning Rafa's ability.......

how original :whatever:

the questions are very specific and well put. i don't see too many of the superfans coming up with any answers to these questions. just the usual meaingless drivel about getting behind the team blah blah blah.

the wheel has come full circle at this stage - the site now seems to be mainly populated by concerned fans who have serious questions about the direction our club is going in with a few others sniping at the fringes about moaners, whingers and critics. i've yet to see one of these fans coming up with an actual well thought out football answer to a well presented football questions - instead we just get the predictable "**** off back to old toilet" cuntmongery. someoone said it on another thread and i agree 100% "i support LFC not rafaFC".

[einar]

Look, I want rafa to succeed as much as anyone, but to 1. counter my post with this 'rafa can do no wrong' crap is really looking at the current situation through rose tinted spectacles. 2. We are not challenging for the league at the moment FACT. Nor are we without hope of a title challenge at the moment also FACT. 3. All I am putting forth is that we are in a mini-crisis at the moment and it may all pan out fine at the end of the day. But then again it may not. If we continue to play as we have been we will certainly not be challenging for much. The buck stops with the manager and 4. i have yet to see how his vision will lead us to No 19. He may be a tactical genius in europe but he is no such genius in the premierleague.

5. The fact that rotation works in spain does not automatically mean it will work in England. To win the league twice in spain is impressive but rafa has yet to show his ability to win the english league. To say otherwise is tantamount to blind faith. I am not opposed to rotation per se, And i agree that the media obsession puts it too much in the minds of people as the root of all problems which of course is bull****. but i think it needs to be used more frugally to allow to team to be more effective.

6. By the way i am a huge advocate of not buying into the media and getting caught up in their agendas. My post is entirely formed from my own views on matters.

1. Actually I resent that comment.

2. Yes we are. Being 6 points behind with a game in hand on Man U we certainly are in with a good chance. We need to improve to do it, but we still have a good chance.

3. I am not arguing that. I think everyone knows we are in a dip in form. The problem for me is that to many people are not talking about what Rafa is doing to get us out and focus on what he is not doing to get us out.

4. Well I think I do. And I really like what I see. I am not saying he will definitely succeed but I think I see where he is going.

5. You have said this twice now. Can you explain further?

6. Sorry mate. I did not mean to imply anything bad about you.

[Craig_H]

Even with my skepticism, I'd agree with that (barring a 5th or below finish of course).

Yep, i'd go along with that.

[paulcooper4]

the questions are very specific and well put. i don't see too many of the superfans coming up with any answers to these questions. just the usual meaingless drivel about getting behind the team blah blah blah.

the wheel has come full circle at this stage - the site now seems to be mainly populated by concerned fans who have serious questions about the direction our club is going in with a few others sniping at the fringes about moaners, whingers and critics. i've yet to see one of these fans coming up with an actual well thought out football answer to a well presented football questions - instead we just get the predictable "**** off back to old toilet" cuntmongery. someoone said it on another thread and i agree 100% "i support LFC not rafaFC".

Some of these "superfans" can see its just a dip in form and are not gonna throw there toys out the pram every time it happens. We will hit top form again I have no doubt and there are signs of it happening in the last few games. Our short passing game was in (small) patches excellent against Blackburn and if Kuyt had of had his boots on the right feet and scored one of his glorious chances the confidence would have shot right through the team.

I dont think its "mindless drivel" to get behind the team.

[Pacman]

the questions are very specific and well put. i don't see too many of the superfans coming up with any answers to these questions. just the usual meaingless drivel about getting behind the team blah blah blah.

the wheel has come full circle at this stage - the site now seems to be mainly populated by concerned fans who have serious questions about the direction our club is going in with a few others sniping at the fringes about moaners, whingers and critics. i've yet to see one of these fans coming up with an actual well thought out football answer to a well presented football questions - instead we just get the predictable "**** off back to old toilet" cuntmongery. someoone said it on another thread and i agree 100% "i support LFC not rafaFC".

Fair point but does it need 5 threads all harping on about the same ****ing subject?

You don't seem to like people who have a more positive out look at what is happening at Liverpool at the minute. Well there are some (me included) who can't stand the negative bile that comes out of some posters mouths. It's getting to a point where after every game there is about 5 or 6 new threads all spouting the same rubbish about how we should sack our manager 11 games into a new season having not even lost a league game yet. To me that smacks of knee jerk time wasters who need to stop watching you're on sky sports and listening to talk sport.

[red g]

Fair point but does it need 5 threads all harping on about the same ****ing subject?

You don't seem to like people who have a more positive out look at what is happening at Liverpool at the minute. Well there are some (me included) who can't stand the negative bile that comes out of some posters mouths. It's getting to a point where after every game there is about 5 or 6 new threads all spouting the same rubbish about how we should sack our manager 11 games into a new season having not even lost a league game yet. To me that smacks of knee jerk time wasters who need to stop watching you're on sky sports and listening to talk sport.

[red g]

Fair point but does it need 5 threads all harping on about the same ****ing subject?

You don't seem to like people who have a more positive out look at what is happening at Liverpool at the minute. Well there are some (me included) who can't stand the negative bile that comes out of some posters mouths. It's getting to a point where after every game there is about 5 or 6 new threads all spouting the same rubbish about how we should sack our manager 11 games into a new season having not even lost a league game yet. To me that smacks of knee jerk time wasters who need to stop watching you're on sky sports and listening to talk sport.

and many posters who ONLY come on when times are bad, they really **** me off

[badpiggy]

Some of these "superfans" can see its just a dip in form and are not gonna throw there toys out the pram every time it happens. We will hit top form again I have no doubt and there are signs of it happening in the last few games. Our short passing game was in (small) patches excellent against Blackburn and if Kuyt had of had his boots on the right feet and scored one of his glorious chances the confidence would have shot right through the team.

I dont think its "mindless drivel" to get behind the team.

what does that actually mean in terms of an internet forum?


btw, intersting observations about the blackburn game.

i'm not suggesting that we sack rafa - i just think that there should be some signs of a team moving forward. hanging on to the pacesetters in the league may prove to be good enough come the end of the season but a lot of people think that the type of football rafa gets us playing will not win us the premiership. for ****s sake sunderland get tight on people and work their bollix off when not in possession. in fact that's the way most of the **** teams in the league operate. we are a bigger club with better players playing a **** form of football.

graeme hunter said on irish radio the other day that when we won in istanbul, liverpool was ateam greater than the sum of its parts - now with rafa's team inplace and better players we are less than the sum of our parts. it's normal in football to lay this difficulty at the feet of the manager.

some of us have had the same complaints and worries about rafa for a couple of years now (some from his initial appointment) so when things aren't going well - and despite being unbeaten in the league we are not playing well - it's not a gloating i-told-you-so type of response that we're giving but rather a genuine concern that our worst fears are being realised. and if rafa turns it all around noone will be happier than me and these complaining others.

[red g]

what does that actually mean in terms of an internet forum?


btw, intersting observations about the blackburn game.

i'm not suggesting that we sack rafa - i just think that there should be some signs of a team moving forward. hanging on to the pacesetters in the league may prove to be good enough come the end of the season but a lot of people think that the type of football rafa gets us playing will not win us the premiership. for ****s sake sunderland get tight on people and work their bollix off when not in possession. in fact that's the way most of the **** teams in the league operate. we are a bigger club with better players playing a **** form of football.

graeme hunter said on irish radio the other day that when we won in istanbul, liverpool was ateam greater than the sum of its parts - now with rafa's team inplace and better players we are less than the sum of our parts. it's normal in football to lay this difficulty at the feet of the manager.

some of us have had the same complaints and worries about rafa for a couple of years now (some from his initial appointment) so when things aren't going well - and despite being unbeaten in the league we are not playing well - it's not a gloating i-told-you-so type of response that we're giving but rather a genuine concern that our worst fears are being realised. and if rafa turns it all around noone will be happier than me and these complaining others.

Maybe rafa has more faith in some oif the drivel that he has bought, but he cant do a lot about it now. I have 100% faith that with the backing of g and t , the fans and the players he will bring home number 19