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In his most in-depth interview ever, former Liverpool manager Roy Evans talks honestly and passionately about his 35-year Anfield career from Shankly to Houllier.
Filmed for LFC TV, the interview – which is fully transcribed below – is essential reading for any true Red.
Evans talks frankly about the Spice Boys tag and the moment he discovered Gerard Houllier was being brought in as joint manager.
He recalls the time he dared challenge Bill Shankly and ponders on how the great man would get on in the modern game.
The 59-year-old also reveals his belief that Graeme Souness could have succeeded as boss in another era.
Finally, he talks candidly about his signings from Paul Ince to Stan Collymore, as well as the one that got away: Teddy Sheringham.
You signed for Liverpool as an apprentice, tell us about that...
I remember my first day: I was welcomed by a guy called Albert Shelley at the gates. As you came in he'd point at you and say 'jockey' or 'policeman' depending on what size you were. I was a jockey. That was your first put down, to keep your feet on the ground. My dad played in the Welsh league during wartime, and so he and my mum were delighted when I signed. They followed me all round with England Schoolboys and then when I played for the reserves and what have you they were always there. I think I ended up playing more reserve games than anyone else ever has!
You could have gone to Everton though, is that right?
Everton were in the ascendancy at the time but I always took to Liverpool. I'm not sure why, maybe it was my time in the boys' pen. A lot of clubs were interested in me: Everton, Liverpool, Chelsea, Bolton and Wolves. There were better offers than Liverpool in terms of the package but Liverpool was where I wanted to go.
Were you always confident of making it as a footballer?
At school I always played above my age. I was an under-13 playing for the under-15s. I was the same size back then as I am now, so had a bit more power compared to the other kids. Unfortunately I haven't grown since! I was a big fish in a little pond playing for England Schoolboys but soon realised when I came to Liverpool that I was just a little tiddler. I was fortunate enough to come here under Shanks and when I signed I said to him that I was also a good cricketer and would like to go on a cricket tour. He said: "Look, no son, it's either football or cricket – and you have to choose football." Ten years later he told me I'd chosen the wrong one!
What are you memories of Shanks?
I was fortunate enough to sit next to him when he came into the dressing room every morning. You didn't have a conversation with Shankly, he just made these great statements of fact like: "It's a great day today, son." And I'd go: "It's raining, boss." And he'd go: "It's a great day today, son." The game meant so much to him, he loved his football. Some managers have won more things, like Bob Paisley, but Shankly started the whole process. It sounds very corny to just say: "Pass to the nearest red shirt and move." But the players took to it and became better players because of it. Simplicity is genius, and we are where we are today because of him.
And he had such a bond with the fans, didn't he?
Yes, he was like Chairman Mao. There's nothing he liked better than standing up there at St George's Hall and speaking to the people. Even when Bob won the European Cup, Shanks was dressed in his red tie and wanted to get up. I had to stop him, though I don't know how I dared, because Bob had to go up there first. The fans took to Shanks because he was vocal and said outrageous things like "Football is more important than life or death." There was none of this like you have now where you don't go near the fans - he was a man of the people. He was the honourary Scouser. Scousers are not easily kidded and he had them in the palm of his hand. No one has done that since. I remember going in with Dougie Livermore to ask for a pay rise when we were 17. I went in there and asked for £30 a week but he was like, "Yes, but you're a little bit slow" and "Yes, but you're a little bit short." You went in there feeling good and came out feeling two inches tall in less than a minute. I got the rise but he needed to make his point. He was a terrific man.
It's a different world today, isn't it, with all the media attention?
Yes, but he would have had the press in the palm of his hands, he was that good at his job. In football terms, nothing's changed. The simplicity of what he preached is still relevant today: pass and move. Okay, there's more emphasis on tactics now. Managers have to have more things in place, but at the end of the day it's a simple game.
What's the best piece of advice he ever gave you?
He told me to make sure I always enjoyed it. Yes, there's pressure and you're playing in front of thousands of faces, but it's still a game. I don't see enough enjoyment in the faces of a lot of players nowadays.
Going back to your career, did you have any pre-match superstitions or rituals?
I always got my mum to polish my shoes. I made it a superstition! I saw lads wearing the same underpants for six weeks. Some players had to go out last, and some needed a drop of Scotch before they played.
What was the highlight of your playing career?
My debut. Unfortunately, I played only 13 or 14 times. I was fortunate enough to play against George Best's Man Utd at Anfield though, and beat them. Besty was something special but I managed to keep him quiet on that day. He came over afterwards and said 'thanks' for not kicking him! Being realistic, I wasn't quite good enough to play more. I went on loan in America to play for Philadelphia, then came back and they offered me a job on the coaching staff at the age of 25.
Tell us about the transition from Shankly to Paisley?
Shankly had talked about leaving so many times that we didn't believe him at first, and I think it was something he ended up regretting. It's like giving your favourite coat to your best mate but then seeing him in it and realising it's great. Bob didn't want the job but he took it and what he did for this club was phenomenal. You name it, Bob won it. When he packed up it was like part of my life going.
What kind of man was he?
He could pick a player. He and Geoff Twentyman picked out some great buys from the lower leagues. He was a funny man off the pitch, too – he was the kind of bloke who'd throw peanuts up, open his mouth and they'd land on his chin.
Then of course Joe Fagan took over...
I think he was the man from the backroom staff who was the most respected by the players and everyone. Bill could be on another planet sometimes and Bob wasn't the greatest communicator, but Joe was just straightforward. When he spoke, everyone listened.
You went on to work alongside Kenny Dalglish. What was he like as a manager?
He took chances. Kenny was a new man on the block after Paisley and Shanks, he had different ideas. He'd play young kids even when you'd argue experience was best. It usually came off for him though, and to win the double as player/manager is exceptional.
How much of a shock was his resignation?
A hell of a shock. He rang me up and said, "Evvo, I'm off." I thought he was playing a practical joke because he was a wind-up merchant. But then his voice changed and he gave his reasons. He said he felt like his family were being neglected, and that's fair enough. I hoped he'd come back after some time away but in life sometimes you can't go back.
Did you think you were in with a chance of taking over?
People said I was but the nice thing about Liverpool is you knew you had a job for life. You never thought about trying to get Paisley's job or Dalglish's job. There was no ego. Graeme Souness got the job and I thought he was the right man for Liverpool.
It didn't work out though, did it?
Graeme has been criticised by a lot of Liverpool fans but no one cared more about this club than him. Kenny wanted to win but with Graeme it was a necessity. He couldn't understand why some players weren't the same as him. It drove him round the bend. He'd drive home from work and I'd fear for him because of his mental state. He had some problems with his heart and things didn't work out for him, but I think that in another time at Liverpool he might have been successful.
Where did he go wrong?
You're only as good as the players you bring in, but then the players you buy are those that are available to you. He maybe brought in too many players who weren't of a high enough calibre.
Tell us about how you came to be Liverpool manager?
I spoke to Graeme at the end after the cup tie we lost, and the next day I got a phone call from the chairman. I took the job straight away. I would have been disappointed at that stage if I hadn't been considered. They offered me a lot less money than Graeme but I had to prove myself to them.
What sort of shape was the team in at that stage?
We weren't challenging for anything and we needed an extra two or three players. Maybe I was a bit pedestrian with things. I took the job and thought we needed to get to the end of the season in a safe way. I should have been more pro-active from day one. I started that year by winning the Coca-Cola Cup, which you can call what you want but it's still a nice trophy to win. I had high hopes of going on to better things.
A few players got stick during your reign for the so-called Spice Boys image. What was your view on that?
Over the four years a lot of players got stick for the Spice Boys image and the white suits, but people failed to realise that they were good pros. A lot of them gave 10 years' service to the club, and they were great to watch.
Yes, you had some great attacking players: Robbie Fowler, Steve McManaman, Jamie Redknapp. What were these guys like to work with?
The first time I saw Robbie was for Liverpool Schoolboys playing against West Lancs. Unfortunately my lad was in goal for West Lancs! Robbie scored a hat-trick. But you couldn't coach him, it was all instinct to him. People call him God and they don't do that for nothing. He entertained people. People say McManaman left the club because he thought he could go on to better things, but he gave 10 years of great service here and he was great to watch as well. Redknapp, he had everything you want in a footballer but then every time he came back from England he had a broken leg! We also had Rob Jones, Jason McAteer, John Barnes – all great players. We tried to get more in. We tried to sign Teddy Sheringham before he went to United but the club's policy was to buy younger than that.
You brought Stan Collymore to the club for £8.5million – did he live up to that price tag?
If you talk to Robbie he'll tell you Stan was as good a partner as he played with, and I was happy with him in his first year. But then he didn't move close enough and started turning up late to training. The press got hold of it and then it became 'Stan watch'. He was a talented lad and he could have been a great, great player. Maybe he just had too many issues in his head at the time. He had power and pace – it was just the mental side. He stopped himself being great. Someone asked me once if Stan needed a psychiatrist and I said, "No, I'm the one who needs the psychiatrist because I bought him!"
Another one of your signings was Paul Ince. What did you expect from him?
We wanted a leader and I think we got that. Obviously he wasn't going to be the most popular player because he played for Manchester United, but once he stepped over that white line he competed. He did well for us, though I know some fans will disagree. He wasn't the best trainer in the world and did like a moan, but he did demand things from other players and he did give us backbone. It's nice to see him doing well in management and I would never regret buying Paul Ince.
How did you feel when you started getting stick from the fans?
You have good times and bad. Fans will be critical, that's what they pay their money for. You have to appreciate what it means to the fans. Their week can be ruined by a bad result. We did well against the top sides but just let ourselves down against lesser teams who perhaps had a better attitude on the day.
Then Gerard Houllier came in as joint manager. How did you find out and what were your feelings?
I was part of it. The directors met him while I was on holiday in Barbados but we'd talked about bringing someone else in on the coaching side. I spoke to him while he was in Paris and we had the same ideas about football, the only thing was job titles. I was thinking director of football but someone on the board suggested joint-manager. To be fair, I should have said 'no' straight away but I was trying to do the best thing for the club. I didn't have a great ego about it and let it happen, and I'll regret that in many ways for the rest of my life. It just couldn't be done, even if it was me and my best friend. Two people can never share the exact opinions. It was the little things: what time does the bus leave? One says 2pm and the other wants it to go at 2.15pm. It started to erode team spirit because the lads didn't know who was boss. At the end I just decided I'd had enough. For the good of the club, something needed to change.
How early did you know it wasn't going to work?
Quite early. We lasted until November I think but I knew before that. And I'm not blaming Gerard for it at all. I was obviously gutted to leave and me and Dougie Livermore, who also left, went to have a few pints in Southport to drown our sorrows. For the first few months I was quite bitter about it, you want them to get beat, but then you realise it's the team you've loved all your life. They had 35 good years out of me and I had 35 good years out of them. I have great respect for what Gerard achieved, he did really well.
Would you ever come back to work for the club?
No, I don't think so. I'm 59 now and I don't think there's anywhere I can go. They asked me to go on the board when I left but that didn't interest me. I still have a great feel and love for the club, but you shouldn't go back once you've had your time.
Looking back at you career, you worked with so many characters, but who was the funniest?
Steve Nicol. In his early days there were some gems. Everything he said he got wrong. Everything he did he got wrong, but on the pitch he was fantastic. Alan Hansen, Souey and Kenny used to wind him up something rotten. He had more nicknames than you could count. They called him 'Bumper' because that's what he used to call bouncers in clubs. I would never have dreamed he'd be a manager, never mind a top manager in the USA.
Finally, you're a Bootle boy but another player has probably usurped you as the town's most famous son now, hasn't he...Jamie Carragher?
Yes, there's no doubt about that, and rightly so. He epitomises everything Liverpool is about with his dedication and the way he applies himself. He's also a student of the game. I mean, I'm okay with the way the game's played but beyond that I know nothing, but Jamie is football daft. He knows everything.
In his most in-depth interview ever, former Liverpool manager Roy Evans talks honestly and passionately about his 35-year Anfield career from Shankly to Houllier.
Filmed for LFC TV, the interview – which is fully transcribed below – is essential reading for any true Red.
Evans talks frankly about the Spice Boys tag and the moment he discovered Gerard Houllier was being brought in as joint manager.
He recalls the time he dared challenge Bill Shankly and ponders on how the great man would get on in the modern game.
The 59-year-old also reveals his belief that Graeme Souness could have succeeded as boss in another era.
Finally, he talks candidly about his signings from Paul Ince to Stan Collymore, as well as the one that got away: Teddy Sheringham.
You signed for Liverpool as an apprentice, tell us about that...
I remember my first day: I was welcomed by a guy called Albert Shelley at the gates. As you came in he'd point at you and say 'jockey' or 'policeman' depending on what size you were. I was a jockey. That was your first put down, to keep your feet on the ground. My dad played in the Welsh league during wartime, and so he and my mum were delighted when I signed. They followed me all round with England Schoolboys and then when I played for the reserves and what have you they were always there. I think I ended up playing more reserve games than anyone else ever has!
You could have gone to Everton though, is that right?
Everton were in the ascendancy at the time but I always took to Liverpool. I'm not sure why, maybe it was my time in the boys' pen. A lot of clubs were interested in me: Everton, Liverpool, Chelsea, Bolton and Wolves. There were better offers than Liverpool in terms of the package but Liverpool was where I wanted to go.
Were you always confident of making it as a footballer?
At school I always played above my age. I was an under-13 playing for the under-15s. I was the same size back then as I am now, so had a bit more power compared to the other kids. Unfortunately I haven't grown since! I was a big fish in a little pond playing for England Schoolboys but soon realised when I came to Liverpool that I was just a little tiddler. I was fortunate enough to come here under Shanks and when I signed I said to him that I was also a good cricketer and would like to go on a cricket tour. He said: "Look, no son, it's either football or cricket – and you have to choose football." Ten years later he told me I'd chosen the wrong one!
What are you memories of Shanks?
I was fortunate enough to sit next to him when he came into the dressing room every morning. You didn't have a conversation with Shankly, he just made these great statements of fact like: "It's a great day today, son." And I'd go: "It's raining, boss." And he'd go: "It's a great day today, son." The game meant so much to him, he loved his football. Some managers have won more things, like Bob Paisley, but Shankly started the whole process. It sounds very corny to just say: "Pass to the nearest red shirt and move." But the players took to it and became better players because of it. Simplicity is genius, and we are where we are today because of him.
And he had such a bond with the fans, didn't he?
Yes, he was like Chairman Mao. There's nothing he liked better than standing up there at St George's Hall and speaking to the people. Even when Bob won the European Cup, Shanks was dressed in his red tie and wanted to get up. I had to stop him, though I don't know how I dared, because Bob had to go up there first. The fans took to Shanks because he was vocal and said outrageous things like "Football is more important than life or death." There was none of this like you have now where you don't go near the fans - he was a man of the people. He was the honourary Scouser. Scousers are not easily kidded and he had them in the palm of his hand. No one has done that since. I remember going in with Dougie Livermore to ask for a pay rise when we were 17. I went in there and asked for £30 a week but he was like, "Yes, but you're a little bit slow" and "Yes, but you're a little bit short." You went in there feeling good and came out feeling two inches tall in less than a minute. I got the rise but he needed to make his point. He was a terrific man.
It's a different world today, isn't it, with all the media attention?
Yes, but he would have had the press in the palm of his hands, he was that good at his job. In football terms, nothing's changed. The simplicity of what he preached is still relevant today: pass and move. Okay, there's more emphasis on tactics now. Managers have to have more things in place, but at the end of the day it's a simple game.
What's the best piece of advice he ever gave you?
He told me to make sure I always enjoyed it. Yes, there's pressure and you're playing in front of thousands of faces, but it's still a game. I don't see enough enjoyment in the faces of a lot of players nowadays.
Going back to your career, did you have any pre-match superstitions or rituals?
I always got my mum to polish my shoes. I made it a superstition! I saw lads wearing the same underpants for six weeks. Some players had to go out last, and some needed a drop of Scotch before they played.
What was the highlight of your playing career?
My debut. Unfortunately, I played only 13 or 14 times. I was fortunate enough to play against George Best's Man Utd at Anfield though, and beat them. Besty was something special but I managed to keep him quiet on that day. He came over afterwards and said 'thanks' for not kicking him! Being realistic, I wasn't quite good enough to play more. I went on loan in America to play for Philadelphia, then came back and they offered me a job on the coaching staff at the age of 25.
Tell us about the transition from Shankly to Paisley?
Shankly had talked about leaving so many times that we didn't believe him at first, and I think it was something he ended up regretting. It's like giving your favourite coat to your best mate but then seeing him in it and realising it's great. Bob didn't want the job but he took it and what he did for this club was phenomenal. You name it, Bob won it. When he packed up it was like part of my life going.
What kind of man was he?
He could pick a player. He and Geoff Twentyman picked out some great buys from the lower leagues. He was a funny man off the pitch, too – he was the kind of bloke who'd throw peanuts up, open his mouth and they'd land on his chin.
Then of course Joe Fagan took over...
I think he was the man from the backroom staff who was the most respected by the players and everyone. Bill could be on another planet sometimes and Bob wasn't the greatest communicator, but Joe was just straightforward. When he spoke, everyone listened.
You went on to work alongside Kenny Dalglish. What was he like as a manager?
He took chances. Kenny was a new man on the block after Paisley and Shanks, he had different ideas. He'd play young kids even when you'd argue experience was best. It usually came off for him though, and to win the double as player/manager is exceptional.
How much of a shock was his resignation?
A hell of a shock. He rang me up and said, "Evvo, I'm off." I thought he was playing a practical joke because he was a wind-up merchant. But then his voice changed and he gave his reasons. He said he felt like his family were being neglected, and that's fair enough. I hoped he'd come back after some time away but in life sometimes you can't go back.
Did you think you were in with a chance of taking over?
People said I was but the nice thing about Liverpool is you knew you had a job for life. You never thought about trying to get Paisley's job or Dalglish's job. There was no ego. Graeme Souness got the job and I thought he was the right man for Liverpool.
It didn't work out though, did it?
Graeme has been criticised by a lot of Liverpool fans but no one cared more about this club than him. Kenny wanted to win but with Graeme it was a necessity. He couldn't understand why some players weren't the same as him. It drove him round the bend. He'd drive home from work and I'd fear for him because of his mental state. He had some problems with his heart and things didn't work out for him, but I think that in another time at Liverpool he might have been successful.
Where did he go wrong?
You're only as good as the players you bring in, but then the players you buy are those that are available to you. He maybe brought in too many players who weren't of a high enough calibre.
Tell us about how you came to be Liverpool manager?
I spoke to Graeme at the end after the cup tie we lost, and the next day I got a phone call from the chairman. I took the job straight away. I would have been disappointed at that stage if I hadn't been considered. They offered me a lot less money than Graeme but I had to prove myself to them.
What sort of shape was the team in at that stage?
We weren't challenging for anything and we needed an extra two or three players. Maybe I was a bit pedestrian with things. I took the job and thought we needed to get to the end of the season in a safe way. I should have been more pro-active from day one. I started that year by winning the Coca-Cola Cup, which you can call what you want but it's still a nice trophy to win. I had high hopes of going on to better things.
A few players got stick during your reign for the so-called Spice Boys image. What was your view on that?
Over the four years a lot of players got stick for the Spice Boys image and the white suits, but people failed to realise that they were good pros. A lot of them gave 10 years' service to the club, and they were great to watch.
Yes, you had some great attacking players: Robbie Fowler, Steve McManaman, Jamie Redknapp. What were these guys like to work with?
The first time I saw Robbie was for Liverpool Schoolboys playing against West Lancs. Unfortunately my lad was in goal for West Lancs! Robbie scored a hat-trick. But you couldn't coach him, it was all instinct to him. People call him God and they don't do that for nothing. He entertained people. People say McManaman left the club because he thought he could go on to better things, but he gave 10 years of great service here and he was great to watch as well. Redknapp, he had everything you want in a footballer but then every time he came back from England he had a broken leg! We also had Rob Jones, Jason McAteer, John Barnes – all great players. We tried to get more in. We tried to sign Teddy Sheringham before he went to United but the club's policy was to buy younger than that.
You brought Stan Collymore to the club for £8.5million – did he live up to that price tag?
If you talk to Robbie he'll tell you Stan was as good a partner as he played with, and I was happy with him in his first year. But then he didn't move close enough and started turning up late to training. The press got hold of it and then it became 'Stan watch'. He was a talented lad and he could have been a great, great player. Maybe he just had too many issues in his head at the time. He had power and pace – it was just the mental side. He stopped himself being great. Someone asked me once if Stan needed a psychiatrist and I said, "No, I'm the one who needs the psychiatrist because I bought him!"
Another one of your signings was Paul Ince. What did you expect from him?
We wanted a leader and I think we got that. Obviously he wasn't going to be the most popular player because he played for Manchester United, but once he stepped over that white line he competed. He did well for us, though I know some fans will disagree. He wasn't the best trainer in the world and did like a moan, but he did demand things from other players and he did give us backbone. It's nice to see him doing well in management and I would never regret buying Paul Ince.
How did you feel when you started getting stick from the fans?
You have good times and bad. Fans will be critical, that's what they pay their money for. You have to appreciate what it means to the fans. Their week can be ruined by a bad result. We did well against the top sides but just let ourselves down against lesser teams who perhaps had a better attitude on the day.
Then Gerard Houllier came in as joint manager. How did you find out and what were your feelings?
I was part of it. The directors met him while I was on holiday in Barbados but we'd talked about bringing someone else in on the coaching side. I spoke to him while he was in Paris and we had the same ideas about football, the only thing was job titles. I was thinking director of football but someone on the board suggested joint-manager. To be fair, I should have said 'no' straight away but I was trying to do the best thing for the club. I didn't have a great ego about it and let it happen, and I'll regret that in many ways for the rest of my life. It just couldn't be done, even if it was me and my best friend. Two people can never share the exact opinions. It was the little things: what time does the bus leave? One says 2pm and the other wants it to go at 2.15pm. It started to erode team spirit because the lads didn't know who was boss. At the end I just decided I'd had enough. For the good of the club, something needed to change.
How early did you know it wasn't going to work?
Quite early. We lasted until November I think but I knew before that. And I'm not blaming Gerard for it at all. I was obviously gutted to leave and me and Dougie Livermore, who also left, went to have a few pints in Southport to drown our sorrows. For the first few months I was quite bitter about it, you want them to get beat, but then you realise it's the team you've loved all your life. They had 35 good years out of me and I had 35 good years out of them. I have great respect for what Gerard achieved, he did really well.
Would you ever come back to work for the club?
No, I don't think so. I'm 59 now and I don't think there's anywhere I can go. They asked me to go on the board when I left but that didn't interest me. I still have a great feel and love for the club, but you shouldn't go back once you've had your time.
Looking back at you career, you worked with so many characters, but who was the funniest?
Steve Nicol. In his early days there were some gems. Everything he said he got wrong. Everything he did he got wrong, but on the pitch he was fantastic. Alan Hansen, Souey and Kenny used to wind him up something rotten. He had more nicknames than you could count. They called him 'Bumper' because that's what he used to call bouncers in clubs. I would never have dreamed he'd be a manager, never mind a top manager in the USA.
Finally, you're a Bootle boy but another player has probably usurped you as the town's most famous son now, hasn't he...Jamie Carragher?
Yes, there's no doubt about that, and rightly so. He epitomises everything Liverpool is about with his dedication and the way he applies himself. He's also a student of the game. I mean, I'm okay with the way the game's played but beyond that I know nothing, but Jamie is football daft. He knows everything.
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