Rafa backs down?

[disco]

deleted

Memories

Who's that 'Disco' comedy genius?

[NICKZS]

why bother posting that Thomas?

I just thought it was a bit insensitive mocking the mans illness. Didnt need to be said.
Thats all

Then I would certainly suggest you don't watch the new Ricky Gervais stand-up

(I wouldn't bother anyway, actually. It's ****)

[kopdan]

Then I would certainly suggest you don't watch the new Ricky Gervais stand-up

(I wouldn't bother anyway, actually. It's ****)

Doesnt normally bother me.

But Tomkins was named and was mocked

a little harsh

[MindGuerrillas]

Watching from afar, they have been disappointed by the way their most recent sporting acquisition has struggled in this season’s Champions League and the lead Arsenal have built up over them in the Premiership.

I'm still not entirely sure that the Yanks fully understand what the Champions League is.

The impression I got from listening to their interviews before last years final was that they looked at the CL as though it were like the play-offs in American sports. They were talking as though the CL was THE prize and that the Premier League was simply a method of qualifying for it, like the regular season in US sport, rather than being the thing we should be looking to win. It was as though the CL was just the second part of a 2 year long season (qualify 1 year, knock-out phase next) rather than a separate bonus competition.

I'm not sure that I've explained that very well but did anyone else get that impression from them?

I only thought of it again now after reading the bit above about them being upset about our CL form despite our good placing in the Prem. For years we've been criticised for doing well in the CL at the expense of the league. We were told that the league was what we should be focusing on and that the CL was just an nice bonus on top. Now we're doing well in the league (ahead of Chelsea and ManU in 2nd place if we win our game in hand) but still get criticised for having a slow start in Europe even though qualification is still in our own hands. Either the CL is the priority or it's not. It seems we can't win with some people.

[Craig_H]

See the

Maybe fickle wasn't the right word. Soft would be better.

Soft?

How so?

[Morten_nogamst_Pedersen]

Soft?

How so?

See the
Maybe soft wasn't the right word.......

[Craig_H]

[PTP]

it's a fair point - and an interesting one - rafa already mentioned that they don't understand the differences in how the european transfer market works and how american sports transfer drafts work. So it could be quite possible that is how they see things, also add to the fact they will get a hell of a lot more money back if we win the champions league over the league etc.

[Lynchyred]

Tomkins: An Open Letter to George Gillett and Tom Hicks, 26.11.07

From his blog:

http://www.paultomkins.com/blog.html

An Open Letter to George Gillett and Tom Hicks, 26.11.07

Dear George and Tom,

I'd just like to express how depressed and upset I am at the continuing uncertainty surrounding the club, and say that I'd love to hear some reassurances that the differences will be settled ASAP - and that Rafa Benítez has your full support and backing.

While I do think there are two sides to any story, and I appreciate the difficulties of running any club (balancing the books, keeping fans happy, and dealing with opinionated, strong-minded individuals), what I've heard these past few days leads me increasingly to believe you might be missing the point regarding football transfers, and in so doing, undermining the manager, whether you meant to or not.

You may not have realised, perhaps through cultural differences, that telling a manager of an English football team to 'just coach the side' is a kind of insult.

I am not about to make accusations, or go on some personal tirade against you both. Particularly with a welter of hearsay and little actual hard evidence (as yet) fuelling the media frenzy. Clearly all is not well, but at the same time, is it all 'lost'?

I just want to know that the club I love is in safe hands; I feel that is the case on the pitch, but that's something relatively easy to assess; assessing how a club is being run behind the scenes from our side of the fence is much more difficult, because we don't get to see what happens, and only hear snippets of information which is often wrapped up in rumour and hearsay.

I felt Rafa's tone after the Newcastle game was fairly conciliatory, in saying you had the best interests of the club at heart, and that as you were new you needed time to settle into the roles, like he'd expect with a new player. You are no strangers to running sports teams, but you cannot match Rafa's knowledge when it comes to football. Few men can. In this sense, you are the rookies, and you would surely acknowledge that.

And if it is indeed true that you don't (yet) fully understand how the transfer system in Europe works, then it seems to me that this needs to be remedied as soon as possible. This is a fundamental basic of the game. I would like to think it's a misunderstanding, and that there's been some transatlantic miscommunication. I hope I'm not being naive in holding out some hope that this is the case.

Also, I understood that Foster Gillett was going to be acting as your eyes, ears and the in-house go-between in Liverpool, but reports suggest that he is not in place?

For the record, I can't think of one successful English club who has chopped and changed its managers, and which hasn't given the man in charge of the team full control. A club like Newcastle has become a laughing stock because of this short-sighted approach. Continuity and stability are paramount to football success.

There have been some woeful attempts at Director of Football-type affairs, and the only time I know that this type of arrangement has worked was when David Dein bought players at Arsenal, but * crucially - at Arsene Wenger's behest.

Across North London, Spurs * whose net spend this summer was greater than Liverpool's (as was Manchester United and Manchester City's) - were spectacularly undone by the appointment of a Technical Director whose views differed from the manager's. Too many cooks...

I understand a natural fear you might have - that of sensing the head of the team possesses too much power - but English football works this way. You need one man with one vision to hold the wheel and steer the ship; not rule by committee. And he needs to be so much more than just a coach.

And any manager worth his salt a) will be wary of working for a club that does not give him full power in all football matters, and b) will likely be as difficult a character as Benítez, if not more so.

Top managers are not easy men to work with. Ferguson, Mourinho, Shankly - none made life easy for the board, and none took kindly to being told what to do, but each delivered the goods in the end. Arsene Wenger is the same, although he was able to build his Arsenal empire with the full backing of David Dein. Had he been told otherwise, he would not have hung around.

Stability is key for any successful club. Rafa Benítez is doing far, far, far better at this stage of his tenure than Alex Ferguson was at United. You cannot imagine how much better he is doing. Ferguson failed to win a trophy until the end of his 4th season, and his average league position after five seasons was a woeful 9th. His finishes were 11th, 13th, 2nd, 13th and 6th. Compare this with 5th, 3rd, 3rd, plus an FA Cup and two Champions League Finals, one of which was so famously won, and you can see the chasm.

Replacing Rafa now, when he has assembled his best squad and had his best league start, really would make no sense to me - win the game in hand and the Reds would be 2nd, and still unbeaten. The team is set up to work in his methods. The players fit his mould. And from what I can tell, they have the utmost respect for him. This is crucial.

And while I do think there are perhaps a handful of managers in football who are in the same league as Rafa, I do not think their methods are necessarily suited to Liverpool FC, while I definitely don't think they could make as much of this particular squad as Rafa can. They would want to bring in their own new players, which will be costly, and introduce new systems, which will put things back.

In terms of money spent, Benítez's overall transfer record is outstanding. All managers make mistakes, but most of his have been cheap ones who were quickly traded. What he has got for his money has been top-rate. The squads of United and Chelsea cost at least twice as much as Liverpool's, and are full of £15m-£30m players, yet is there really much of a gap in class? Meanwhile, Arsenal are making use of young players they procured many years ago.

Fan opinion is almost exclusively siding with Rafa. While there has also been some unhelpful, xenophobic anti-American rhetoric, which just clouds the issue, you need to understand how unpopular this situation is making you amongst the Anfield faithful, and how high spirits are running.

When you took over the club there was a surprising amount of goodwill. I don't mean surprising in that I felt at the time that you deserved anything less, but surprising in that any new owners could perhaps have expected a rougher ride. As fans it seems our patience had been worn down with almost three years without a solution to the investment issue, and a series of desperately unsuitable suitors chancing their arms. Compared with Thaksin Shinawatra, you seemed a good bet.

Maybe there are very valid reasons, and I will try to keep as open a mind as possible, but I am struggling to know why the matter cannot be discussed and an attempt at resolving it made before the 16th December.

I have to admit that such a delay worries me. The issues at hand - be it laying the foundations for transfers well ahead of the window (as all teams do), or repairing the relationship with Rafa - seem rather too pressing for that. I don't see how it can wait.

If failure to get through the league stage of the Champions League is crucial to the financial planning for the transfer window, I can understand that part of your thinking. On the other hand, if it is crucial as to whether or not Benítez is fired, I cannot understand that for one minute. Before Rafa was here, we weren't even qualifying for the competition, let alone reaching two finals.

Rafa spoke out after Athens, but you seemed to understand his frustrations. You went on to help the club secure some fantastic players over the summer, although the net spend - while healthy - was not remarkable. One further £7m target - Gabriel Heinze - was missed very late in the day, so it's clear from the summer that such a defender was needed, while any manager will always be assessing his squad as to how he can strengthen it.

Having spent the past three years studiously observing Rafa's methods, I've come to realise just how good he is. I believe he is a football visionary, and what he is building at Liverpool will be something really special.

For instance, it's now seven months since we conceded a goal from a corner or free-kick delivered into the box (excluding the 'reserve' team fielded in the Carling Cup). Zonal marking was widely mocked in 2004, and now we see other teams conceding lame goals with man-to-man marking every week. It's just one area where Rafa made a controversial change, stuck with it, and now is reaping the rewards.

My instincts tell me that you are too smart to dispense with a man like Rafa, and that for all the tension you do really respect him. My instincts tell me you have too much to lose, both in terms of talent, squad morale, financial resources and fan backing, by making such a drastic move - if, indeed, that is what you are considering.

If one good thing has come of this, it's that it's made the fans unite behind the manager and his team. The fear of losing Rafa, which may be just paper talk but all the same seems very real, has made many realise just what it is we have to be grateful for.

So, please reassure me, and all other nervous Reds, that it's all one big (unfortunate) misunderstanding, and that yourselves, Rick Parry and Rafa can get together for a group hug sooner rather than later. I'll even buy the coffee and donuts.

Yours faithfully,

PAUL TOMKINS

[GordonGecko]

I agree mate.

It's classless.

All well and good having a bit of banter but mocking someone because they have M.E

I just hope they or no-one in their family get it.

****ing retards.

The irony of that post is quite something

[Subby]

****ers - were is this - i checked - i think - i can't keep up with it all

[Maestro]

I'm still not entirely sure that the Yanks fully understand what the Champions League is.

I agree.

I have the feeling that they - I mean both the Hicks and Gillett families - have been slack in learning the business. They have a huge investment on their hands now, and I get the feeling that their knowledge of the business aspects of European football could be much better.

I mean, if I had such a huge investment, you can be damn sure I'd be talking to other chairmen, chief executives, scouts, administrators - anyone in the know in the industry to familiarise myself with how that industry works. I reckon that Foster Gillett was supposed to be the person to learn the ropes and report back, but has been very remiss in his duties.

[Tinkerbitch]

Rashid's e mail to Parry was far better!

[Michael]

Long

[sonsofthedesert]

1707 words for what could have been said in about 100.