Post match v Reading

[Craig_H]

We clearly gave up.

[Neil Young]

I'm struggling to understand why the papers seem to be saying that Reading deserved their win when we hit the woodwork twice, had a penalty wrongly awarded against us and arguably might have had one given for us. Fair enough, Reading had a bit of luck and won easily enough in the end but it could have been different.

As for why Rafa made his substitutions it doesn't matter now as long as we beat Marseille and Manchester United.

[marcus50bucks]

Rafa has admitted himself that he took players off because he felt he couldnt change it and wanted to save them for tuesday.

Rafa never said that at all.

[Redspin]

Thats true. Man united should be beating teams like Bolton but **** happens. No team, no matter how much you might think it, can win every game.

Very true.....and Arsenal should be beating **** teams like Middlesbrough. I wonder if they have so many knee-jerk fans on their sites as we seem to? Sack Wenger!

[Redspin]

Besiktas, Fulham and Bolton, big time eh?

When we finish 15 points behind the title winners again, you can use that as an excuse for why Benitez, a man out of his depth, should stay in the job.

Would that be the same Bolton that outplayed Man U a few weeks ago?

[Morph]

Very true.....and Arsenal should be beating **** teams like Middlesbrough. I wonder if they have so many knee-jerk fans on their sites as we seem to? Sack Wenger!

no i'm sure all their fans will point to their injury situation, which by the way was hardly used as an excuse for some of our dodgy results, even though we had about 7 players out at one point

[Redspin]

Do you think he'd get into Man UTD's, Chelsea's or Arsenal's SQUAD, never mind team?

If you do, you're wrong Fella, I'm sorry.

Man U's bench is full of third-raters like Pique, Eagles and Fletcher, so I think there's a fair chance Voronin could elbow his way between them in their squad at least

[Redspin]

this place is going to go mental if we don't win on Tuesday.

This place is always mental. Unfortunately 90% of posters live in a black-or-white world. A few draws and it's "sack Rafa" a couple of wins and he's a genius. I guess these are the kind of people who are so quick to call 6-0-6 and give us all the benefit of their opinions. My guess is that the average age of these knee-jerk merchants is about 17

[Redspin]

Which incident you talking about mate? 1st one? Cos if you are there were still plenty of defenders around to deal with it. And I don't agree Torres still was within range of playing the ball - it was diverted away from the direction in which Toirres was running. The fact remains he got the ball in a sliding challnge. Just because Torres then fell over his leg doesn't make it a pen. If you're talking about the 2nd one...then I'd say we had more of a case.

I'm afraid that the fact the ball was either not within range of Torres playing the ball or was diverted away from the direction Torres was running as you say, is totally and utterly irrelevant. The particular law of the game says - to paraphrase it - that if any of the various things that would be a direct free-kick outside the box and therefore a penalty in the box, occurs then a penalty shall be awarded regardless of where the ball is on the field of play. To trip or attempt to trip is one example of where a direct free-kick or a penalty should be awarded. If Torres was facing his own goal or running diagonally towards the corner flag and is then fouled - tripped for example - and even if the ball's gone outside the box it is still a penalty.

Unfortunately most commentators don't know the laws of the game - Andy Gray's a good example - and they often say a pen shouldn't be given because a striker's lost control of the ball, was running way from goal etc., etc - all of which has no relevance at all in the decision to award a penalty

[Craig_H]

Rafa never said that at all.

Only in the post match interview...

[Kopite_Colin]

Don't fool yourself. Dirk Kuyt will play.

Depends whether Kuyt plays on Tuesday. Crouch has scored against the Mancs and a Hattrick against the Arse. I think he would be a better bet at home, given they be having to worry about Torres for the 1st time too.

[Kopite_Colin]

I'm afraid that the fact the ball was either not within range of Torres playing the ball or was diverted away from the direction Torres was running as you say, is totally and utterly irrelevant. The particular law of the game says - to paraphrase it - that if any of the various things that would be a direct free-kick outside the box and therefore a penalty in the box, occurs then a penalty shall be awarded regardless of where the ball is on the field of play. To trip or attempt to trip is one example of where a direct free-kick or a penalty should be awarded. If Torres was facing his own goal or running diagonally towards the corner flag and is then fouled - tripped for example - and even if the ball's gone outside the box it is still a penalty.

Unfortunately most commentators don't know the laws of the game - Andy Gray's a good example - and they often say a pen shouldn't be given because a striker's lost control of the ball, was running way from goal etc., etc - all of which has no relevance at all in the decision to award a penalty

Sorry mate, I may not have explained myself clearly enough. The fact that the ball was played before the man when Torres was tackled is the key point here. Whether Torres would have got to the 2nd ball after the original tackle is a fair point, but it doesn't make it a pen. The only reason I alluded to the direction in which he was running was to stress that even after the tackle it was unlikely he was going to regain possession of the ball because of the other defenders around and the fact that the ball was diverted away from Torres at an angle that would have made it virtually impossible to have regained control. Even if he had have managed to stay on his feet after the original challenge, he would't have got to the ball.

That was all I was trying to say.

[Howard_lfc]

Only just drawn up the nerve to log on after yesterday's debacle. Haven't read this thread but it's probably full of frustration anyway.....

Spose its already been said but Rafa picked the wrong formation and wrong players. Crouch & Voronin were ineffective and Masherano - well, I'm beginning to get a bee in my bonnet about him. £17m for him at the moment is pure laughable; I've said it before and I'll say it again - he is not worth anywhere near £17m. Yesterday he provided little protection for the centre halves and offered less than **** all as an attacking force. At the moment our middle 2 must consist of Stevi, Lucas and Xabi (any 2 of those 3).

[The Glove]

We clearly gave up.

Didnt we hit the post in the dying minutes? Yeah stopped trying clearly.

[badpiggy]

Only just drawn up the nerve to log on after yesterday's debacle. Haven't read this thread but it's probably full of frustration anyway.....

Spose its already been said but Rafa picked the wrong formation and wrong players. Crouch & Voronin were ineffective and Masherano - well, I'm beginning to get a bee in my bonnet about him. £17m for him at the moment is pure laughable; I've said it before and I'll say it again - he is not worth anywhere near £17m. Yesterday he provided little protection for the centre halves and offered less than **** all as an attacking force. At the moment our middle 2 must consist of Stevi, Lucas and Xabi (any 2 of those 3).

and a further concern is how well he plays for argentina. consistently.