Post match thread

[Skillz]

Where we go from here is that Rafa gets until the end of the season and he'll be judged at that point. We can all debate what is acceptable in terms of the league or cup performances but I would argue that if he does no better than 4th then it's time to call it quits because he'll have spent the last 4 seasons taking us exactly to where Houllier left us when he signed off in 2004. And that's just not good enough, regardless of how much money he has had in comparison to the other big teams because if we're not going to get their type of investment in playing staff then we need a manager who can over-perform, not one that some (hello Tom) seem to think requires 20M players in every position before he can properly challenge.

People claim there will be an exodus if Rafa leaves. If the team is only performing a level that equates to 4th in the league then I would argue that this might not be such a bad thing.

Great idea. Let's get in O'neil and give him another heap of money and when he is finishing 4th or worse in a few years, let's do it again.

Sorry but for me we have to faith in Rafa and see out his vision for the club. It worked for ManU and the Arse and I believe it will work for us as well. Whether it be this year or next, even the one after who knows but as long as there is progress being made we should stay the course as IMO it will pay dividends in the long run.

[vonk]

Complete and utter nonsense to suggest we have not moved forward immeasurably in the last 3 years under Rafa, and to be honest I'm not going to waste any time in explaining it because no doubt it will be lost on you.

Why are you in no doubt it will be lost on me? Dhavlos, I've stated I don't want Rafa sacked as the clearout and rebuilding starts all over again, but in terms of the quality of football we play, our league position and the other three, are we currently any closer to winning it? I really want to believe we are.

[bigfooty]

It worked for ManU and the Arse

But you're wrong there.

Wenger won the title in his first full season in charge. He didn't require 4-5 years to get his "vision" imprinted on the side. Whose to say there isn't a manager out there who could do the same for us with some astute buys in the attacking areas of the side? Wenger was virtually unheard of in this country before he was given the Arsenal job, he wasn't some guy who had stamped his mark on Europe, bettering teams like Barca and Real Madrid with a big club like Valencia, but a bloke who had been managing Nagoya Grampus Eight in that great footballing nation of Japan.

It's almost unfathomable that we, or any "big" team, would make an appointment like that in the current climate but that's not to say it couldn't work for us or whoever.

[vonk]

Great idea. Let's get in O'neil and give him another heap of money and when he is finishing 4th or worse in a few years, let's do it again.

Sorry but for me we have to faith in Rafa and see out his vision for the club. It worked for ManU and the Arse and I believe it will work for us as well. Whether it be this year or next, even the one after who knows but as long as there is progress being made we should stay the course as IMO it will pay dividends in the long run.

...and you've hit on my point exactly. I'm desperately trying to see above all this and see the progress. As long as there is progress being made I'm behind Rafa all the way. We've done better in Europe and signed lot's of young players and if that's it, fine. Obviously, some actual opinion will be lost on me but at what point do we say we are not getting any better?

[Skillz]

But you're wrong there.

Wenger won the title in his first full season in charge. He didn't require 4-5 years to get his "vision" imprinted on the side. Whose to say there isn't a manager out there who could do the same for us with some astute buys in the attacking areas of the side? Wenger was virtually unheard of in this country before he was given the Arsenal job, he wasn't some guy who had stamped his mark on Europe, bettering teams like Barca and Real Madrid with a big club like Valencia, but a bloke who had been managing Nagoya Grampus Eight in that great footballing nation of Japan.

It's almost unfathomable that we, or any "big" team, would make an appointment like that in the current climate but that's not to say it couldn't work for us or whoever.

I am not wrong though. Those 2 clubs have persisted with their manager and reaped the benefits. By the way Rafa won the CL in his first season.

It is about winning the league though, first and foremost. Personally think it is far too early too give up on Rafa. He has some problems he needs to iron out but he has shown enough to be kept on and I believe he will because I do not believe the Yanks will want to finance a rebuild, particularly prior to the stadium opening.

I think Rafa will be very disappointed with how we performed yesterday but credit to Fergie cos I thought he got most right, as did Rafa.

[Skillz]

...and you've hit on my point exactly. I'm desperately trying to see above all this and see the progress. As long as there is progress being made I'm behind Rafa all the way. We've done better in Europe and signed lot's of young players and if that's it, fine. Obviously, some actual opinion will be lost on me but at what point do we say we are not getting any better?

not now anyway.

If we go backwards in the league for sure. Anyone expecting us to win this year is a little crazy IMO. We need to put in a better challenge for sure and so far we have. 2 losses hurts but all is not lost yet. Personally think we will start to play some brilliant football once Agger and Alonso return but realistically expect us to finish 10-15 points behind this year.


And win the CL, of course

[Guest]

As always in these circumstances, there are those who are 'supporting' and seeing positives, and those who are negative and trying to over analyze and criticize the manager or players, for being clueless or ****e or whatever.

The stats shows that we've competed and totally dominated this game as from the second half. We even had the upper hand on the match when they scored ... sucker punch.

The reality is that we're closing the gap, but at the same time other teams are also progressing. So, we need to spend more to catch up. The ball is in our court. Rafa is doing a great job. Back the man.

[Skillz]

As always in these circumstances, there are those who are 'supporting' and seeing positives, and those who are negative and trying to over analyze and criticize the manager or players, for being clueless or ****e or whatever.

The stats shows that we've competed and totally dominated this game as from the second half. We even had the upper hand on the match when they scored ... sucker punch.

The reality is that we're closing the gap, but at the same time other teams are also progressing. So, we need to spend more to catch up. The ball is in our court. Rafa is doing a great job. Back the man.

TBH the after match reaction today has been very good I think. Most have taken a rational approach to the loss whilst being bitterly disappointed by the nature of it. This is particularly hard to take considering the opponent and how they have done this a few times now.

Even DJS has been fair and reasonable, dare i say it, even positive. Fact is we were let down by a few players today that meant regardless of what the stats say we struggled to break the down especially once they got the lead. Watching on TV when we didn't take those chances in the 1st half I could of predicted the final scoreline then and there.

[Guest]

TBH the after match reaction today has been very good I think. Most have taken a rational approach to the loss whilst being bitterly disappointed by the nature of it. This is particularly hard to take considering the opponent and how they have done this a few times now.

Even DJS has been fair and reasonable, dare i say it, even positive. Fact is we were let down by a few players today that meant regardless of what the stats say we struggled to break the down especially once they got the lead. Watching on TV when we didn't take those chances in the 1st half I could of predicted the final scoreline then and there.

They have the ability to hurt any teams at any moment even when they're under the cosh. That's what separates us.

People don't realize that all this progress and the fact that we're competing and outplaying them in games, is down to Rafa. We need a couple of world class players and they cost big money.

In an ideal world, Rafa would have bought Tevez to play in Kuyt's position.

[Skillz]

They have the ability to hurt any teams at any moment even when they're under the cosh. That's what separates us.

People don't realize that all this progress and the fact that we're competing and outplaying them in games, is down to Rafa. We need a couple of world class players and they cost big money.

In an ideal world, Rafa would have bought Tevez to play in Kuyt's position.

Nah, too ugly.

Hopefully Aguero

[Guest]

Nah, too ugly.

Hopefully Aguero

Never seen Aguero but AFII has been dreaming of him a long time, so he must be special.

[Skillz]

Never seen Aguero but AFII has been dreaming of him a long time, so he must be special.

TBH i havent seen enough of him to be sure he is the answer, except to say what i have seen is very promising. The main reason I like him is he is technically excellant, can play in the hole, is creative and a goal threat.

In other words pretty much what we need IMO.

[disco]

re. Kewell, he likes to have time on the ball, something he didn't get yesterday.

As a result, he lost the ball a lot either through poor passes or by being tackled very easily. The occasional flashes of skill didn't compensate for this yesterday

Indeed, their goal came straight after he lost the ball in our half. Perhaps he needed to have fallen over as it was a tackle from behind.

[Skillz]

re. Kewell, he likes to have time on the ball, something he didn't get yesterday.

As a result, he lost the ball a lot either through poor passes or by being tackled very easily. The occasional flashes of skill didn't compensate for this yesterday

Indeed, their goal came straight after he lost the ball in our half. Perhaps he needed to have fallen over as it was a tackle from behind.

I just posted this on RAWK

"Agree he was poor today along with all our attackers. Personally i felt ManU's pressing stopped our fast passing game and we looked toothless as a result. Harry in particular struggled IMO because he needs fast movement of the ball to be effective because at this stage he looks to have a lost a yard or 2.

Still think we need to wait before writing Harry off. He has had 9-10 games now and this is the first one he has not performed to expectations IMO considering what he is coming back from and how long he was out.

Needs to be said (through gritted teeth) that the scum's back 4 and 2 CM's played very well. Shame because VDS was extremely shaky but we could not put enough quality balls in the box to place him under more pressure"

[disco]

Agree mate, it's not that he's lost it or anything, just Man U were pressing all the time