Post match thread

[Craig_H]

With Ifs you could rebuild the world. No point. We're still in it as we have a game in hand. Many things can happen.

I think we're out of it now.

For us to win it, Arsenal (for example) have to lose three games. They've lost one in 17 so 3 in the remaining 21 is a tricky one.

That alone isnt enough to rule us out, but when you also consider that we now have to go to United, Chelsea and Arsenal...well, i cant see it myself.

I'd be content now to see rafa just ensure a top 4 finish and put everything into the CL...something which i think he was doing anyway, in truth.

[disco]

It's a penalty 10 times out of ten when the ball hit the arm/hand when you don't have your arm close to your body, and Tevez had his arm a long way from that and the ball hit his arm.

A very clear penalty that should have been given 10 times out of 10. It won't matter if it's ball to hand/arm in this case.

May be, but given he could have given Rooney, Ronaldo and Evra about 5 yellows each I couldn't really see him make that decision

[Dhav]

Lets not forget we're missing our 2 best passers of the ball: agger and alonso. A bit more patience in front of their defence would have helped today.

I think we sorely missed Alonso today. It seemed Gerrard was earmarked for the Alonso role today given how deep-lying he was, except he proved nowhere near as effective and was rarely in the game. We desperately need Alonso back so he can get us moving, get us passing and dictate the tempo.

[Craig_H]

We were very good second half, bossed the game 100% and they relied on hoofing up the ball. It was difficult to breach a tight defence. We could have done with Alonso and Agger.

Dont you see though, we 'bossed' it as you say, in our OWN half...not in their final third.

They'd done what they were seeking to, pinched a goal and invited us onto them safely in the knowledge that we didnt have the quality to score.

For all our possession, they never really looked uncomfortable, barring the bizarre moments of bumping into each other that VdS and their defenders carried out.

[Craig_H]

Lucas should have come on in 2nd half as we were chasing the game.

Usual probelm of lack of creativity wingers. Which has still not been solved.

Oh and Ronaldo is a diving cnut

Have to agree there, Masher was brilliant defensively, but his distribution was shocking.

[Craig_H]

Situation now is... they either give him the money or sack him. Pretty simple really. Rafa picked the right team. Kewell, Benny, Kuyt let him down. But for me management is about tactics and instilling belief in your team (motivation if you like). The tactics were not working and it was obvious to me 30 minutes in. He didnt change it until 65 in. It was also very obvious that we were nervous playing them.

I'm on the fence. I can't see Rafa winning us the league to be honest. There is no improvement from 3 years ago against the top sides. Three years ago we finished 5th and won number 5. This year, in all honesty, hard to see us finishing above 3rd.

He nearly picked the right team, but sadly Kewell and Kuyt werent the right selections.

[Craig_H]

Problem is I'm not sure he does.

I mean he played really badly today, and it still took 75 minutes to get him off.

That defeat against Reading really hurts now, doesn't it lads?

I was thinking the same, 2 defeats in a row, 6 points dropped and the title challenge is now gone...in the space of 8 days

[Craig_H]

That's a silly comment.

Why is it?

If a team wins against an inferior side, what argument is there that the same XI will produce against a vastly superior side, just because they did so in Marseille?

[Craig_H]

Until we have the money to buy someone of the calibre of Tevez, you'll have to make do with Kuyt, so no point complaining.

Yeah, cos we've barely spent a penny, have we?

[disco]

Didn't take you ****ers very long to play the 'told you so' card did it

Congratulations, you're amazing.

[the rev leeroy brown]

I was thinking the same, 2 defeats in a row, 6 points dropped and the title challenge is now gone...in the space of 8 days

title challenge is not gone.......IT'S DECMEBER FOR **** SAKE PEOPLE!!!!

[Craig_H]

You know nothing, you just spout bull****. Shut up. If we had the money to buy better players Rafa would do it. Kuyt is a LFC player, support him.

We HAVE had the money.

In Rafa's time, we've spent £47m on strikers...or £58m if you include Babel.

[Craig_H]

Question is; how do you fix that?

Is it the manager, players or both?

Why can we be confident top dogs in Europe, and win on anyone's patch, and believe we can always do it, but not in the league?

Wrong mental approach?

By and large I reckon we've got the players now, so why isn't it the same.

Hate to go back to the Reading game, but what Rafa did there for me sent a message to everyone. Perhaps, for whatever reason, we're still not capable.

In europe, you can win with a slower, more methodical, less physical approach.

In the Premier League, the top sides will deal with it easily.

That's the difference for me.

[Craig_H]

No, that's bull****. We have Tevez and we have Crouch, which is a fine pairing, but today he wasn't even the problem. The problem was RAFA'S DECISION TO PLAY KUYT. Playing against a bottom-dwelling Marseille in mid-week is fine, but you have to know that against a team like Man U, you have to control the midfield and while still allowing Gerrard to prowl and run free; PLAY a creative supporting midfielder (Lucas), allow Benayoun and Gerrard to create and overlap on the right. Again, after 30 minutes of watching this match, the problem was obvious. Mascherano did an admirable job, but again, this was pure tactics. This isn't about money.

You can call me an internet poster who thinks he knows more than Rafa blah blah blah, fine. But anyone with two eyes watching this match today knew within 15 minutes that Kuyt was a disastrous choice and our lack of patience and control in the midfield cost us big by not allowing our best players to do what they do best. IT HAPPENS EVERY MATCH. Go look at the thread; is there anyone who didn't predict Crouch for Kuyt at 75 minutes?

Rafa will not learn. I will continue to wish and hope, but the reality? Not good enough in match management. When people grab a lead and bunker, we're dead. Always.

Unfortunately, that's a brilliantly accurate post.

[Howard_lfc]

I think we're out of it now.

For us to win it, Arsenal (for example) have to lose three games. They've lost one in 17 so 3 in the remaining 21 is a tricky one.

That alone isnt enough to rule us out, but when you also consider that we now have to go to United, Chelsea and Arsenal...well, i cant see it myself.

I'd be content now to see rafa just ensure a top 4 finish and put everything into the CL...something which i think he was doing anyway, in truth.

I am sick to ****ing death of settling for this before christmas. Not having a pop at you Syd as you're correct, but my god this is beginning to get on my ****ing nerves.
If 'that' was our title tilt then god help us - we've got years and years ahead of us before we get that elusive title.