To all those who keep arrogantly overrating our players

[Joe King]

Im not saying we are going to go there and win, but im saying i believe we could. I bet before any of the games none of us on here will be going, yeah where gonna go and get pounded, take each game as it comes and see what happens. Im not saying we will win the league and it does look unlikely. But in the back of my head i still have that little sense of hope, thats what being a fan is all about.

What drugs are you on and can I have some?

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

and arrogantly underestimating other teams players especially manc players, well you got served a cold reality check today

we need new ideas, it was all hoof hoof hoof

and now we gotta go away to emirates, OT and the bridge in must win positions

its a real shame after the good start

I blame Rafa.

These are his players, and his squad.

What really concerns me though is that our style and quality of play hasn't, in general improved, perhaps that's the way he wants to play, and pragmatic approach based on defensive strength, percentages and individual brilliance.

But we all remember that Valencia side of his, the passing and moving was as good as anything seen at Anfield in many a year.

Blaming the likes of Kuyt, Riise, Pennant and Sissoko is too miss the point, yes they aren't good enough, but who signed them and who continues to picks them?

I see us with top technical players like Kewell, Gerrrad, Torres, Babel and Crouch, and I see the ball being launched 50 yards from the back and I wonder if it's purely the fault of the players, or whether it's the culture of the English game, or if it's the manager’s tactics.

I also see Rafa defying common sense by picking silly formations and players out of position, and I wonder what he's thinking?

Then I see him pulling off Gerrard and Torres against Reading with 20 minutes left to play 3-1 down, and I wonder what message that sends to the players and fans?

Rafa's done a lot to restore the clubs reputation, but can he deliver us the trophy we crave and really restore our domestic pride? The jury is out for me. And it's certainly not wrong to question his methods, when after 3 years we seem to be no closer to winning or even competing for the league.

And I see fans on the forums using lame excuses and other kop outs such as net spend, and the fact that other clubs spend more rather than focusing on why this club has really been behind. That we’ve been run by second raters for the past 2 decades who have hired second rate managers, and that we haven't had a manger since Kenny who knew what it takes to win the league in this country. I hope Rafa can learn/improve and make it.

If people want to delude themselves that by continuing the way he's going that we're winning the league then that's fine. You're in for a disappointment.

[breffniboy]

Im not saying we are going to go there and win, but im saying i believe we could. I bet before any of the games none of us on here will be going, yeah where gonna go and get pounded, take each game as it comes and see what happens. Im not saying we will win the league and it does look unlikely. But in the back of my head i still have that little sense of hope, thats what being a fan is all about.

Well whatever gets you through the days mate but the reality is, it's mid-December, we've played all our main rivals at home and taken two points and look like we have barely moved on a step in these big games - we're just a defensive workmanlike team with two attacking gems that keep us in fourth every year. United did a Houllier on us today and our attempts to break them down were just apalling.

I'm just utterly ****ing sick to the back teeth at how we run around in circles and get ****ing nowhere as regards winning a league title. Manager, club owners, players, I can't even be arsed blaming anyone, the first goal went in and I knew straight away we were goosed and might as well pack it in, we were never going to score one never mind two, unless a peno or free kick. I look at Arsenal and how they play and I burn up inside with envy because that's supposed to be us.

Once again we are stagnating and playing for fourth and a CL run, unless January brings absolutely radical changes. On the basis of today's display, there's at least another two to three Birmingham/Reading results in us, and that's before we go to Old Trafford, Emirates and Stamford bridge.

Just incredibly pissed off with the whole lot.

[Svennis]

We need complete over haul to our defence. Riise and Carra must be replaced. Arbeloa is all right as is Agger. Hyypiä can play with Agger but he's getting old. So new left back and centre back must be signed as soon as possible. And those players should be very confortable with the ball.

Then we will need individual skill to attacking players. Compare our four most attacking players to same players of ManU and there is a huge difference.

[Spionkop69]

and arrogantly underestimating other teams players especially manc players, well you got served a cold reality check today

we need new ideas, it was all hoof hoof hoof

and now we gotta go away to emirates, OT and the bridge in must win positions

its a real shame after the good start

That wasn't underestimating them. That was letting them dictate the tactics and tempo of the game.

Gerrard should never have been so deep. If he had have pushed on then Ferdinand and Vidic would not have been so ably assisted by Hargreaves in mopping up our attacks.

They nullified us, and mugged us. Exactly like we used to do to them under GH. Didn't make us the better side then, doesn't make them a better side now. They were just more organised for this 90 mins than us.

[Joe King]

We need a change in our attacking third. No creativity- no Fibreglass sort of player who can do something special with a click of the fingers.

[breffniboy]

... and Carra must be replaced.

Oh dear

[Dan]

We need complete over haul to our defence. Riise and Carra must be replaced.

I now base my opinion of you on these 2 sentences:whatever:

[Svennis]

Oh dear

Nothing oh dear to about. Carra has been poor form for 18 months now. Plus his passing and play making is awful. Football played by the team has gone forward and Carra has dropped from the ride. Just like Riise, Sissoko and Kuyt has.

[Svennis]

I now base my opinion of you on these 2 sentences:whatever:

Our defence is not good enough when starting attacks. Riise and Carra are two of the biggest reasons for this. If we want to improve the football we play, then defence needs to be full by players who can pass the ball well and start attacks well. Riise and Carra can not.

[Nic83]

Svennis, rumour has it Torres has a Norweigan father.

[Dan]

Our defence is not good enough when starting attacks. Riise and Carra are two of the biggest reasons for this. If we want to improve the football we play, then defence needs to be full by players who can pass the ball well and start attacks well. Riise and Carra can not.

I've an idea for you. Why dont we sign Beckham and Ronaldinho and stick them in defense seeing as all we need there are people who can pass the ball and start attacks.

Carra is the best at his job, even the greatest players rarely get past him. A DEFENDER doesn't have to be involved in the attacks, ever. If they are, all well and good, if not, then it's just as good for me aswell.

Steve Finnan is not an attacking defender, but trust me, I would be pissed off if we got rid of him. He's a DEFENDER, great at his job which is to DEFEND.

Now piss off back to your console footballing world where you can just attack all the time

[Spionkop69]

Svennis, rumour has it Torres has a Norweigan father.

Is he the same bloke as the Riise hater on 6CM who calls himself Sven? In which case :whatever:

[Svennis]

I've an idea for you. Why dont we sign Beckham and Ronaldinho and stick them in defense seeing as all we need there are people who can pass the ball and start attacks.

Carra is the best at his job, even the greatest players rarely get past him. A DEFENDER doesn't have to be involved in the attacks, ever. If they are, all well and good, if not, then it's just as good for me aswell.

Steve Finnan is not an attacking defender, but trust me, I would be pissed off if we got rid of him. He's a DEFENDER, great at his job which is to DEFEND.

Now piss off back to your console footballing world where you can just attack all the time

Defenders job is the defend and start attacks. Fullbacks job is also to overlap and help winger when attacking. Just likes attackers job is to attack and defend too. Its a team game, team defends as a team and attack as a team. I thought this was a basic knowledge.

[the rev leeroy brown]

The jury is out for me. And it's certainly not wrong to question his methods, when after 3 years we seem to be no closer to winning or even competing for the league.

.

how can u say this bull??????

look how far we were back two years ago and the improvement last year. look at us now....we are (if we win our game in hand) only going to be 7 points off top with all the big four having to play each other again a few times. rafa has had ONE summer in which he has finally had the chance to go after his top transfer targets after years of bargain hunting (sissoko, pennant, crouch, kromkamp etc...) i for one believe the summer buys (babel, torres, lucas in particular) show that given the spending power chelski and man u have had over the past years, rafa WILL be able to compete for - no WIN - us the premier title.

and for **** sake, it's only december, we have half a season to go, we are in all competitions, we are better than we have been for a long time and can only get better!!!! give it a break with all the negative tripe that gets put on here after every game we lose or draw.

we can still win this title this year or have you thrown in the towel on your team, like you have said time and time again that rafa did in reading game?!?!?

LIVERPOOL FC FANS NEVER STOP BACKING THEIR TEAM!!!!!!