Is it really an injustice?

[Skillz]

well for starters...not playing Torres when he should. The press picked up on that...and then the rotation jibes started

And then his infamous press conference. That started the ball rolling as to whether he would be in charge next year.

Some of his comments and actions this year have added to his pressure

Fact

Agree with that to a degree but i would suggest that if Foster Gillett was around keeping Rafa informed particularly in regard to his transfer budget he wouldn't have made those comments.

My only complaint with Rafa is that he seems to be struggling under the pressure and that is not being helped by the poor form of a number of players.

[Guest]

My only complaint with Rafa is that he seems to be struggling under the pressure and that is not being helped by the poor form of a number of players.

Anyone would be mate. And if the fans turn against him, there's no way back. I have a hunch that it's what the americans want in the end. The stories being spouted in most of the press just can't go away, even though there's been a sort of public denial.

[Imy]

You're right but he wouldn't be moaning in public if he didn't feel betrayed. I think he's too smart for that.

As for not playing Torres in some games, this is debatable. We have only one top class striker. The other 3 are good players at most, but nowhere near of the quality required.

The premiership is not won on tactical nous alone. That's why we're so good in the CL, where the complexion of games is totally different.

The premiership is won by teams with the most talent. We may get there by buying players such as Babel and Lucas, but I don't think they're ready now.

That is why we should let Rafa do his job and judge him at the end of his contract.

With regards to the striker situation Rafa has no one to blame but himself, he bought all the strikers to the club.

You'll end up changing managers every 3 years and without warning, we would be classed as the next Newcastle or Spurs. Where's the continuity ?

If the club felt since the beginning that Rafa was the man for the job, then let him finish off his contract !! It's like a director recruiting a poor employee only to lay the blame on him.

I don't think there are better managers around. I can't see anyone better than Rafa.

I hate to admit it BUT i now accept that we are very like Newcastle, massively supported team whose supporters have very high expectations, however badly managed (by the owners/chairman) with almost NO chance of winning the league.

[AFII]

This thread has nothing to do with DIC, it is about our expectations of Rafa...

I only agreed with you that we should get rid of G&H before Rafa.

Rafa have done an excellent job so far and a lot more than you would have expected in his years with us so far.

We have won the CL and been to another final.
Won the FA Cup.
Finished with a club record of points in the PL.
Finished third the last two seasons.
Made the Academy to the best in the country.
Signed some top quality players on the cheap.

It isn't fair to say that we should win the title, maybe challenge but not win it as long as Chelsea and Man U are on a different planet than us in the transfer market.

Third in the league is what you can expect right now and that is what I expect this season.

If Rafa isn't backed or if G&H stays then fifth behind Arsenal and Man C will soon be what you can expect because they will also be on a different planet than us in the transfer market.

If you don't compete with the best then you will fall down the table.

[Guest]

With regards to the striker situation Rafa has no one to blame but himself, he bought all the strikers to the club.

Could be. Crouch is not a bad player at all but both Torres and him needs to be complemented by better quality strikers. Kuyt may have been a mistake but I think he's totally lost confidence and that's partly why he's been that poor. He wasn't that bad when he first came here !

Could he be feeling the wrath of some supporters ?

[loco_law]

:whatever:

Get off his ****ing back. Slur Alex has had over 1000 matches with Manure now, yet if people went by his results over the first 2,3,4,5 and even 6th season, with no silverware, he would have been axed easily. Finally he wins the friggin Carling Cup(league cup, whatever) and in his 7th season he wins the league title.

I'm sick of the Rafa bashing, he has finally got a few $$ behind him (and hopefully more) and unless there is a LOT more money to be spent, I don't care if Shankly himself came back from the grave to manage us, he couldn't win the league without a massive injection of cash.

Manure have had SAF for 22 years. The Arse have had AW for 12 years. Chelsea have an unlimited bankroll.

You expect someone to come in here and try to challenge them right away, or they can **** off. Rafa has won the CL, FA, Supercup, the Charity Shield and been to the final of the CL yet again. Fergie has won the CL once in his reign. ONCE. And he is supposed to be some supergod manager or something. Arsene, never. Chelsea, never.

Yes we want the league. Yes it is something we have missed for far too bloody long.

No, we do not hang Rafa for not having the cash to bring it to us this year.

Who the **** else are you going to get to replace him? They're going to have the same cashflow issues we already have and aren't going to be half the manager he is.


In Rafa I trust.

[Morten_nogamst_Pedersen]

:whatever:

Get off his ****ing back. Slur Alex has had over 1000 matches with Manure now, yet if people went by his results over the first 2,3,4,5 and even 6th season, with no silverware, he would have been axed easily. Finally he wins the friggin Carling Cup(league cup, whatever) and in his 7th season he wins the league title.

I'm sick of the Rafa bashing, he has finally got a few $$ behind him (and hopefully more) and unless there is a LOT more money to be spent, I don't care if Shankly himself came back from the grave to manage us, he couldn't win the league without a massive injection of cash.

Manure have had SAF for 22 years. The Arse have had AW for 12 years. Chelsea have an unlimited bankroll.

You expect someone to come in here and try to challenge them right away, or they can **** off. Rafa has won the CL, FA, Supercup, the Charity Shield and been to the final of the CL yet again. Fergie has won the CL once in his reign. ONCE. And he is supposed to be some supergod manager or something. Arsene, never. Chelsea, never.

Yes we want the league. Yes it is something we have missed for far too bloody long.

No, we do not hang Rafa for not having the cash to bring it to us this year.

Who the **** else are you going to get to replace him? They're going to have the same cashflow issues we already have and aren't going to be half the manager he is.


In Rafa I trust.

Yes we are very good in the cup competitions....

[Guest]

:whatever:

Get off his ****ing back. Slur Alex has had over 1000 matches with Manure now, yet if people went by his results over the first 2,3,4,5 and even 6th season, with no silverware, he would have been axed easily. Finally he wins the friggin Carling Cup(league cup, whatever) and in his 7th season he wins the league title.

I'm sick of the Rafa bashing, he has finally got a few $$ behind him (and hopefully more) and unless there is a LOT more money to be spent, I don't care if Shankly himself came back from the grave to manage us, he couldn't win the league without a massive injection of cash.

Manure have had SAF for 22 years. The Arse have had AW for 12 years. Chelsea have an unlimited bankroll.

You expect someone to come in here and try to challenge them right away, or they can **** off. Rafa has won the CL, FA, Supercup, the Charity Shield and been to the final of the CL yet again. Fergie has won the CL once in his reign. ONCE. And he is supposed to be some supergod manager or something. Arsene, never. Chelsea, never.

Yes we want the league. Yes it is something we have missed for far too bloody long.

No, we do not hang Rafa for not having the cash to bring it to us this year.

Who the **** else are you going to get to replace him? They're going to have the same cashflow issues we already have and aren't going to be half the manager he is.


In Rafa I trust.

I love you Loco.

[Skillz]

Anyone would be mate. And if the fans turn against him, there's no way back. I have a hunch that it's what the americans want in the end. The stories being spouted in most of the press just can't go away, even though there's been a sort of public denial.

It's got to the point that noone knows who's responsible for what's being put in the press, if anyone has.

For example, was Rafa's close friend Rick Parry? Places that in the media, and then goes to meet G&H and tells them Rafa has placed it in the media through a confidante?

Highly speculative but it's dog eat dog ATM, isnt it.

I hate to admit it BUT i now accept that we are very like Newcastle, massively supported team whose supporters have very high expectations, however badly managed (by the owners/chairman) with almost NO chance of winning the league.

Agree, unfortunately. This season our fans have had far too high expectations IMO. We have just begun to buy the highest quality and to expect to catch the champions after they spend 50mill on top of a title winning side, then add Tevez, is unrealistic. Sorry it just is. We have a long way to go and IMO if we win the title before the stadium is finished will take a miracle or a sugar daddy.

[loco_law]

I love you Loco.

Awww muffin.

[Guest]

Yes we are very good in the cup competitions....

Because the premier league is the toughest of all to win and any team winning it has to have sheer quality in abundance.

Look at the teams who won it to date. Blackburn, Manure, Arsenal and Chelsea. Blackburn, Manure and Chelsea have had massive injections of cash, whereas Arsenal have been patient with Wenger and look at the rewards. He's been able to apply his blueprint all the way, same could be applied to Fergie.

I won't say that Rafa hasn't been backed in the transfer market, but there's always been Chelsea and Man Utd ahead of us in that sense. Goalposts have been moved.

If I was Moores, my priority would have been to secure investment from sources as good if not better than our competitors. That was his responsibility. I'm not laying the blame on him, but it could be, that he's been ill advised by his so called advisor's.

[Skillz]

:whatever:

Get off his ****ing back. Slur Alex has had over 1000 matches with Manure now, yet if people went by his results over the first 2,3,4,5 and even 6th season, with no silverware, he would have been axed easily. Finally he wins the friggin Carling Cup(league cup, whatever) and in his 7th season he wins the league title.

I'm sick of the Rafa bashing, he has finally got a few $$ behind him (and hopefully more) and unless there is a LOT more money to be spent, I don't care if Shankly himself came back from the grave to manage us, he couldn't win the league without a massive injection of cash.

Manure have had SAF for 22 years. The Arse have had AW for 12 years. Chelsea have an unlimited bankroll.

You expect someone to come in here and try to challenge them right away, or they can **** off. Rafa has won the CL, FA, Supercup, the Charity Shield and been to the final of the CL yet again. Fergie has won the CL once in his reign. ONCE. And he is supposed to be some supergod manager or something. Arsene, never. Chelsea, never.

Yes we want the league. Yes it is something we have missed for far too bloody long.

No, we do not hang Rafa for not having the cash to bring it to us this year.

Who the **** else are you going to get to replace him? They're going to have the same cashflow issues we already have and aren't going to be half the manager he is.


In Rafa I trust.

Excellant post, although it does make sad reading it is doused with a lot of realism. Unfortunately I feel we may go backwards before we go forwards because until the stadium is finished we will be shopping for the scraps. the only thing that we have going for us is

1) Rafa's ability to attract top talent, he just needs the money
2) Rafa's vision and scouting to attract top young talent
3) We have played in 2 CL finals in 3 years
4) We are Liverpool FC

[Norbs]

There is a difference between us losing our jobs and Rafa - Rafa would be paid up his contract if he was sacked and he is on £3M a year anyway - sorry but my heart doesn't bleed.

I think we need to step away from this "poor Rafa" situation and understand that a club like ours should not be fighting each year with Blackburn and Everton for 4th place.

Why's that then? Do we have a god given right to win it each year? I think this represents more of the problem than money lack of it.

[loco_law]

I also forgot to add anything about the way we don't let other teams succeed. We have killed the Chavs in 2 successive CL semi's, and have had the best defensive record in the league over the last 2 seasons. What seems to be our problem this year? How about a few broken feet for a start?

Give us our healthy defence for the first half of the year, no injuries to Torres, Xabi, Agger, etc, and this is a moot point. Give us just ONE more class striker for FT to feed off of, and NO ONE can touch us.

Again, :whatever:

[Morten_nogamst_Pedersen]

Because the premier league is the toughest of all to win and any team winning it has to have sheer quality in abundance.

Look at the teams who won it to date. Blackburn, Manure, Arsenal and Chelsea. Blackburn, Manure and Chelsea have had massive injections of cash, whereas Arsenal have been patient with Wenger and look at the rewards. He's been able to apply his blueprint all the way, same could be applied to Fergie.

I won't say that Rafa hasn't been backed in the transfer market, but there's always been Chelsea and Man Utd ahead of us in that sense. Goalposts have been moved.

If I was Moores, my priority would have been to secure investment from sources as good if not better than our competitors. That was his responsibility. I'm not laying the blame on him, but it could be, that he's been ill advised by his so called advisor's.

Hope I'm wrong, but I'm starting to lean to the "Rafa's too cautious in the league" side of things.
But I'm also aware and agreeing with the continuity aspect of things.