Rafa...

[Craig_H]

Yeah its utterly depressing. No faith in the owners no faith in the manager - where do we go from here?

It might be interesting to put up a poll to see who thinks rafa should still go at the end of the season no matter what happens re the ownership of the club.

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

Crouch didn't start Man U at home last season, that was another cameo from the bench when he got 10 minutes and still caused more problems than Kuyt.

We ended 2005-2006 with 9 straight league wins and then a Cup win. Momentum. Crouchy at the fulcrum of the attack, not prolific but doing the job and us winning those games despite a pretty average strike force of Fowler, Nando, Crouch and Cisse. He had a decent World Cup despite being given limited chances by another manager who had his favourites (in Owen and Rooney) and did everything possible to get them on the pitch, regardless of their fitness or suitability for the game. It's widely accepted that Sven fkd up picking Rooney on his own against Portugal, allowing him to get booted around the pitch until he snapped with nobody to play off or share the load.

The problems for me comes with what Rafa did in Summer 2006 which, as we can now say, was a waste of time and money in terms of lasting impact for the club as not a single player we bought then is still around having a regular positive influence on the team.

If you look at the start of 2006-2007 Crouchy was on fire. He had an impact coming off the Bench against Haifa, I think he got a flick on the ball to Gonzo to score the winner, scored the winner in the Community Shield, scored for England against Greece, scored away against Haifa, scored home against West Ham, scored against Andorra and then the winner away to Macedonia. Then came the Derby when we picked a very odd side with no pace and some defensive howlers lead to a defeat.

At that point Crouchy, who had scored 6 in 8 starts, is benched by Rafa as he seeks to go with Bellamy & Kuyt for a few games. We fail to score against PSV, we lose to Chelsea, then we have a couple of decent results. He doesn't start any of those games. He comes back into the side and bags a couple against Galatasaray, including that wonderful overhead kick, but is immediately benched for the Bolton game which we lose. He comes back in and does okay against Blackburn, then scores the winner against Bordeaux, but it is then reported in the papers that he will not start against Utd. He doesn't and we lose 2-0 with an inept 4-6-0 formation spearheaded by Kuyt.

Crouch returns to the starting line-up and we win the next 4 he starts, only to go to Arsenal and play with Gonzalez and Zenden in midfield, losing the game 3-0. Crouch is benched, not Kuyt, and we go to Boro and have a dismal 0-0 draw. Crouch comes back in and we start to pick up again.

Later on in the season Crouch is out with an injury, he comes back and bags the hat-trick against Arsenal, scores against PSV, sets up Arbeloa against Reading, scores against PSV again, then is "rested" for Man City away where we go 4-6-0 again with Kuyt and fail to beat a team that didn't score at home for over 4 months prior to our visit. In comes Crouch again and we win a couple before dropping him for Chelsea away in the Champions League, which we lose. After that Crouch's only start is home to Chelsea, a game we won as you will recall, this being his only start in the final month of our season, culminating in his sub appearance in the Athens final.

Last season when Crouch started we won over 75% of our games. When he didn't start we won 36%. The season before that ratio was not as high, but still pretty good, above Rafa's win percentage overall, and thats with him having a run of 24hrs without scoring for us.

Now it doesn't take a math genius to see how that suggests starting with Crouch is a GOOD THING. And that is without a player of Fernando Torres' calibre to partner him, instead having a Morientes, Cisse, Fowler, Kuyt or Bellamy.

Crouch is clearly not the guy to lead the attacking line for any title challenging side, for that you have Torres. But he should be the guy playing alongside him more often than not, sharing the load, being an outlet, allowing Torres to do things other than challenge giant centre-halfs for balls from deep.

The difference between Crouch and Kuyt is fairly simple. For Crouch generally you point to games where he didn't contribute to things as being the exception, rather than the rule. For Kuyt it is the reverse.

Very well said. Totally agree.

But why doesn't Rafa see it?

[Craig_H]

It's very simple for me. If I were a manager, I know who I'd love to see playing against me. Give me Kuyt "attacking" my defence every week and I'm laughing. He's a non-threat. It takes 5 minutes of watching his game to figure it out.

That's possibly the most accurate description of Dirk Kuyt i've ever seen...

The 'non-threat'. Spot on.

[Jazzmaster]

What i meant by my post was how am i supposed to support a manager that seems to be making basic errors of judgement in his team selections?

The crouch v kuyt issue illustrates that perfectly. Crouch is not perfect but he is far far superior to kuyt.

[Shaggy]

Crouchie is shagging Monstse. What other explanation could there possibly be?

[Jazzmaster]

Crouchie is shagging Monstse. What other explanation could there possibly be?

Kuyt is shagging rafa?

[Craig_H]

What i meant by my post was how am i supposed to support a manager that seems to be making basic errors of judgement in his team selections?

The crouch v kuyt issue illustrates that perfectly. Crouch is not perfect but he is far far superior to kuyt.

Generally speaking and last night, there's two regular things rafa does wrong in terms of team selection - kuyt and kewell.

Swap them for babel and crouch and that's much better.

He doesnt generally get much else wrong, apart from when he has a bit of a bizarre 'resting' fit and drops torres and/or gerrard.

[Craig_H]

Kuyt is shagging rafa?

[Jazzmaster]

Generally speaking and last night, there's two regular things rafa does wrong in terms of team selection - kuyt and kewell.

Swap them for babel and crouch and that's much better.

He doesnt generally get much else wrong, apart from when he has a bit of a bizarre 'resting' fit and drops torres and/or gerrard.

I agree with you on that, but those positions are so vital to scoring goals and therefore winning matches that it leads us to draw matches when we could so easily have won, becasue our goal threat is limited.

If we can make such an assessment with our tiny football brains why cant rafa? I have no issue with kuyt or kewell being on the bench cos they certainly have something to offer but as first team regulars they are ineffective more often that not. Conversely, crouch does good things most of the time. I honestly cannot remember when Kuyt did anything from open play that caused me to think he was a half decent player.

[Craig_H]

Funnily enough kuyt was very good in the first half last night and he set up Benayoun's goal beautifully.

Sadly though, we see him produce that once a year and even then, he wasnt actually a goal threat himself. He's half of our strikeforce when he plays and offers zero goal threat.

That damages us so much, it's painful.

[Jazzmaster]

Funnily enough kuyt was very good in the first half last night and he set up Benayoun's goal beautifully.

Sadly though, we see him produce that once a year and even then, he wasnt actually a goal threat himself. He's half of our strikeforce when he plays and offers zero goal threat.

That damages us so much, it's painful.

Yeah granted he played OK but that's the very least id expect of an LFC striker to be fair. I think by his own recent standards he played well but his recent standards are pretty low.

[Zambian_Red]

We've not played to our level consistently this season and we can attribute most of that to events off the pitch. Rafa's leading us somewhere and criticizing him now will lead us nowhere. Instead it will destabilize the team and results will continue being ****e.

We can't do with a reconstruction every 4 years. It's out of the equation. We'll need a miracle worker to fork that out.

On the beeb Gerrard talks about what has been happening off the field and its affecting the players and us the fans.

How on earth can Hicks go out and say Klinsmann was an insurance policy if rafa went to madrid now how does that look upon rafa surely if it was someone else he wouldhave left liverpool.

Also if i may add if rafa leaves end of season the current team will be broken apart most of the spanish contingent will leave and it will be back to transition period building a new team not forgetting the repurcussions of our scouting network, the academy and the reserves.

Even a new manager comes in he will need a hefty budget and if the americans cant back rafa with funds where are they going to cough up funds for the new manager. That will leave us another 5 years or even more without winning anything maybe a cup here and there.

i hate to say this but what has been happening doesnot bode well for either LFC, RAFA, THE FANS and the PLAYERS.

[rage]

Crouch didn't start Man U at home last season, that was another cameo from the bench when he got 10 minutes and still caused more problems than Kuyt.

We ended 2005-2006 with 9 straight league wins and then a Cup win. Momentum. Crouchy at the fulcrum of the attack, not prolific but doing the job and us winning those games despite a pretty average strike force of Fowler, Nando, Crouch and Cisse. He had a decent World Cup despite being given limited chances by another manager who had his favourites (in Owen and Rooney) and did everything possible to get them on the pitch, regardless of their fitness or suitability for the game. It's widely accepted that Sven fkd up picking Rooney on his own against Portugal, allowing him to get booted around the pitch until he snapped with nobody to play off or share the load.

The problems for me comes with what Rafa did in Summer 2006 which, as we can now say, was a waste of time and money in terms of lasting impact for the club as not a single player we bought then is still around having a regular positive influence on the team.

If you look at the start of 2006-2007 Crouchy was on fire. He had an impact coming off the Bench against Haifa, I think he got a flick on the ball to Gonzo to score the winner, scored the winner in the Community Shield, scored for England against Greece, scored away against Haifa, scored home against West Ham, scored against Andorra and then the winner away to Macedonia. Then came the Derby when we picked a very odd side with no pace and some defensive howlers lead to a defeat.

At that point Crouchy, who had scored 6 in 8 starts, is benched by Rafa as he seeks to go with Bellamy & Kuyt for a few games. We fail to score against PSV, we lose to Chelsea, then we have a couple of decent results. He doesn't start any of those games. He comes back into the side and bags a couple against Galatasaray, including that wonderful overhead kick, but is immediately benched for the Bolton game which we lose. He comes back in and does okay against Blackburn, then scores the winner against Bordeaux, but it is then reported in the papers that he will not start against Utd. He doesn't and we lose 2-0 with an inept 4-6-0 formation spearheaded by Kuyt.

Crouch returns to the starting line-up and we win the next 4 he starts, only to go to Arsenal and play with Gonzalez and Zenden in midfield, losing the game 3-0. Crouch is benched, not Kuyt, and we go to Boro and have a dismal 0-0 draw. Crouch comes back in and we start to pick up again.

Later on in the season Crouch is out with an injury, he comes back and bags the hat-trick against Arsenal, scores against PSV, sets up Arbeloa against Reading, scores against PSV again, then is "rested" for Man City away where we go 4-6-0 again with Kuyt and fail to beat a team that didn't score at home for over 4 months prior to our visit. In comes Crouch again and we win a couple before dropping him for Chelsea away in the Champions League, which we lose. After that Crouch's only start is home to Chelsea, a game we won as you will recall, this being his only start in the final month of our season, culminating in his sub appearance in the Athens final.

Last season when Crouch started we won over 75% of our games. When he didn't start we won 36%. The season before that ratio was not as high, but still pretty good, above Rafa's win percentage overall, and thats with him having a run of 24hrs without scoring for us.

Now it doesn't take a math genius to see how that suggests starting with Crouch is a GOOD THING. And that is without a player of Fernando Torres' calibre to partner him, instead having a Morientes, Cisse, Fowler, Kuyt or Bellamy.

Crouch is clearly not the guy to lead the attacking line for any title challenging side, for that you have Torres. But he should be the guy playing alongside him more often than not, sharing the load, being an outlet, allowing Torres to do things other than challenge giant centre-halfs for balls from deep.

The difference between Crouch and Kuyt is fairly simple. For Crouch generally you point to games where he didn't contribute to things as being the exception, rather than the rule. For Kuyt it is the reverse.

excellent post amigo