Americans don't help, but not the sole blame for recent results!

[ufc43]

While I obviously agree that something needs to be done about the club at board level, I don't think that it should cloud other factors contributing to a very poor season. The other factors I am talking about are:

1. Rafa's team selection. Brought up over and over again I know, but I feel that he has selected the wrong team far too often. Take for example, last nights game. No Finnan, Riise, Alonso, Crouch or Babel starting?

As far as I know, none of them were injured. Finnan is better than Arbeloa and Aurelio put together. Aurelio was shocking in his last game and yet still keeps his position, Aurelio has never had a good game for Liverpool and he was poison again last nite. He should never be aloud take a free kick either!

Riise hasn't been having a great season I admit, but he is far more of a threat and a better defender than either Arbeloa and Aurelio. Alonso is another who hasn't been great this season but he creates more than Mascherano(who I think is having an O.K season, just too similar to Stevie G).

Babel or Crouch are a far better striking option than Kuyt or Voronin. Babel is a striker and not a winger. Crouch never lets LFC down and has been treated very poorly by Rafa.

2. Negative style of play: With the exception to the game against Chelsea early in the season, Liverpool have been terrible to watch, far to negative. Often choosing to play with one up front, even at Anfield? The last number of games (2nd half V Luton excluded) have been shocking. I haven't seen Liverpool play as bad in years.

While I think we may still have a chance in the cups its very frustrating to be talking about aiming for forth place while it is still January.

Rafa will be remembered for Istanbul and rightly so, but he ain't the great manager people think he is (not yet anyway). To be spoken of as one of the great managers of Liverpool he will have to improve on his record against the top four teams (which is terrible). Until this happens, Liverpool will continue to play for fourth place.

[Red Chilli]

Shared responsibility: Rafa, coaching staff, players, board, fredo

[bigfooty]

Someone has already mentioned it but last night there was a shot on the telly during the second-half of Babel, Alonso and Crouch warming up. When you think about their qualities, their price tags and what they've done for the club the mind boggles why all three were on the bench for a must-win game.

[flyboy]

While I obviously agree that something needs to be done about the club at board level, I don't think that it should cloud other factors contributing to a very poor season. The other factors I am talking about are:

1. Rafa's team selection. Brought up over and over again I know, but I feel that he has selected the wrong team far too often. Take for example, last nights game. No Finnan, Riise, Alonso, Crouch or Babel starting?

As far as I know, none of them were injured. Finnan is better than Arbeloa and Aurelio put together. Aurelio was shocking in his last game and yet still keeps his position, Aurelio has never had a good game for Liverpool and he was poison again last nite. He should never be aloud take a free kick either!

Riise hasn't been having a great season I admit, but he is far more of a threat and a better defender than either Arbeloa and Aurelio. Alonso is another who hasn't been great this season but he creates more than Mascherano(who I think is having an O.K season, just too similar to Stevie G).

Babel or Crouch are a far better striking option than Kuyt or Voronin. Babel is a striker and not a winger. Crouch never lets LFC down and has been treated very poorly by Rafa.

2. Negative style of play: With the exception to the game against Chelsea early in the season, Liverpool have been terrible to watch, far to negative. Often choosing to play with one up front, even at Anfield? The last number of games (2nd half V Luton excluded) have been shocking. I haven't seen Liverpool play as bad in years.

While I think we may still have a chance in the cups its very frustrating to be talking about aiming for forth place while it is still January.

Rafa will be remembered for Istanbul and rightly so, but he ain't the great manager people think he is (not yet anyway). To be spoken of as one of the great managers of Liverpool he will have to improve on his record against the top four teams (which is terrible). Until this happens, Liverpool will continue to play for fourth place.

spot on . good post

[Imy]

I was arguing this very point last night, OK i will admit this uncertainty does not help (happy now Morph? ) but to use this as the sole reason for the teams inability to win is stupid.

[Manofthebog]

While I obviously agree that something needs to be done about the club at board level, I don't think that it should cloud other factors contributing to a very poor season. The other factors I am talking about are:

1. Rafa's team selection. Brought up over and over again I know, but I feel that he has selected the wrong team far too often. Take for example, last nights game. No Finnan, Riise, Alonso, Crouch or Babel starting?

As far as I know, none of them were injured. Finnan is better than Arbeloa and Aurelio put together. Aurelio was shocking in his last game and yet still keeps his position, Aurelio has never had a good game for Liverpool and he was poison again last nite. He should never be aloud take a free kick either!

Riise hasn't been having a great season I admit, but he is far more of a threat and a better defender than either Arbeloa and Aurelio. Alonso is another who hasn't been great this season but he creates more than Mascherano(who I think is having an O.K season, just too similar to Stevie G).

Babel or Crouch are a far better striking option than Kuyt or Voronin. Babel is a striker and not a winger. Crouch never lets LFC down and has been treated very poorly by Rafa.

2. Negative style of play: With the exception to the game against Chelsea early in the season, Liverpool have been terrible to watch, far to negative. Often choosing to play with one up front, even at Anfield? The last number of games (2nd half V Luton excluded) have been shocking. I haven't seen Liverpool play as bad in years.

While I think we may still have a chance in the cups its very frustrating to be talking about aiming for forth place while it is still January.

Rafa will be remembered for Istanbul and rightly so, but he ain't the great manager people think he is (not yet anyway). To be spoken of as one of the great managers of Liverpool he will have to improve on his record against the top four teams (which is terrible). Until this happens, Liverpool will continue to play for fourth place.

The poor run of form/results has run hand in hand with the yanks fiasco.
Anyone would be nieve to think otherwise.
The knock on effect will be uncertainties with the manager and players, hence where we are.

Everyone has their own opinions on this, but one way or another, whether the yanks stay or go, it needs to be sorted because it's ****ing up our season.

Blame the manager and players all you want, but for one moment, put yourselves in their shoes and see if it wouldn't effect you.

I blame the board, fairly and squairly.............they put us in the shop window, they need to sort it out, and soon.

[Joe King]

Rafa's selection in a rut is weird. Chopping and changing maybe able to bring out a reaction out of someone who didn't look like playing before but it is clear that Babel and Crouch are better than Kewell and Kuyt.

The style of play is another valid point. We play to stop other teams instead of doing our job which is attack and play to our strengths. When Rafa allows the side to be as creative as they want, we can get big results i.e. Besiktas, Bolton. Something for him maybe to ponder on.

At this moment in time, we need a scrappy 1-0 to get the confidence in the league going. A break for some of the players in the FA Cup might not be the best thing. Fringe players who aren't playing to the fans expectations should probably get a game against Havant and Waterlooville.

[Exiled_red]

I agree with what you're saying to a point, but I feel that the takeover talk has affected Rafa's tactics and the team performances. Call me naive if you like but I think that the recent intense speculation about Rafa has made him a little more negative in that he is more worried now about losing games that trying to win them, hence the recent run of draws!

Personally I would have picked a different team to Rafa last night, but football's a game of opinions

[Nic83]

They have **** all to do with recent results IMO

I mean was it their fault our defense let the useless pile of ****e, Bramble, get a shot in? NO

Was it their fault, we were a calamity att he back for the boro goal? NO

Was it their fault we couldnt score more than 1 away against Luton? NO

Was it their fault we had 5 minutes of rotten luck against villa? **** NO

They are being used an an excuse.

[Nic83]

Someone has already mentioned it but last night there was a shot on the telly during the second-half of Babel, Alonso and Crouch warming up. When you think about their qualities, their price tags and what they've done for the club the mind boggles why all three were on the bench for a must-win game.

That was me. Made me cringe.

[Joe King]

I agree with what you're saying to a point, but I feel that the takeover talk has affected Rafa's tactics and the team performances. Call me naive if you like but I think that the recent intense speculation about Rafa has made him a little more negative in that he is more worried now about losing games that trying to win them, hence the recent run of draws!

Personally I would have picked a different team to Rafa last night, but football's a game of opinions

We all think of Rafa as being a man who can stick through thick and thin and revels under pressure and this is one of those times and is failing to deliver. These run of results would be used by the Americans to support their belief Rafa isn't the man and why they were talking to Klinsmann. I believe Rafa is the man but Rafa needs to tell the players not to read the papers, get on with their own game and forget about his future and the boardroom problems.

Not going to happen though as Gerrard said yesterday but people fail to remember that the Scum weren't at their best when the Glazers kept and bidding for Old Toilet.

Hopefully, the takeover is done sooner rather than later and the players can do what they do best.

[FatTony]

The poor run of form/results has run hand in hand with the yanks fiasco.
Anyone would be nieve to think otherwise.
The knock on effect will be uncertainties with the manager and players, hence where we are.

Everyone has their own opinions on this, but one way or another, whether the yanks stay or go, it needs to be sorted because it's ****ing up our season.

Blame the manager and players all you want, but for one moment, put yourselves in their shoes and see if it wouldn't effect you.

I blame the board, fairly and squairly.............they put us in the shop window, they need to sort it out, and soon.

I also think its nieve to put no blame on Rafa. Responsability needs to be shared, but some people on this forum can see no wrong. Blind faith to some extent, which is as stupid as it is admirable.

[tomasjj]

While I obviously agree that something needs to be done about the club at board level, I don't think that it should cloud other factors contributing to a very poor season. The other factors I am talking about are:

1. Rafa's team selection. Brought up over and over again I know, but I feel that he has selected the wrong team far too often. Take for example, last nights game. No Finnan, Riise, Alonso, Crouch or Babel starting?

As far as I know, none of them were injured. Finnan is better than Arbeloa and Aurelio put together.

Don't agree. Aurelio was good last night.

Aurelio was shocking in his last game and yet still keeps his position, Aurelio has never had a good game for Liverpool and he was poison again last nite. He should never be aloud take a free kick either!

Aurelio had a shocker. But has also had good games. The is an excellent deadball taker, so you are dead wrong imo


Riise hasn't been having a great season I admit, but he is far more of a threat and a better defender than either Arbeloa and Aurelio.

Riise is not a good defender. Usually, Aurelios defending is par with Riise while he is better going forward. Arbeloa is better than both.

Alonso is another who hasn't been great this season but he creates more than Mascherano(who I think is having an O.K season, just too similar to Stevie G).


I also think Alonso should have played last night. We were at home and could have used his good and quick distribution.

Babel or Crouch are a far better striking option than Kuyt or Voronin. Babel is a striker and not a winger. Crouch never lets LFC down and has been treated very poorly by Rafa.

Kuyt had a decent first half and set up a goal. He has been very poor lately though. POint is, Crouch has also been poor when given the chance. Treated poorly? How come do you think? Crouch's work rate, yes I know he scores more goals..., has been poorer this year compared to earlier.. I dont know why. Maybe this is one of the reasons he cant get a look in?

2. Negative style of play: With the exception to the game against Chelsea early in the season, Liverpool have been terrible to watch, far to negative. Often choosing to play with one up front, even at Anfield? The last number of games (2nd half V Luton excluded) have been shocking. I haven't seen Liverpool play as bad in years.

One up front does not equal negativity. Your argument on negativity is not something I share. Both this year and last our attacking play has gradually gotten better.

While I think we may still have a chance in the cups its very frustrating to be talking about aiming for forth place while it is still January.

Rafa will be remembered for Istanbul and rightly so, but he ain't the great manager people think he is (not yet anyway). To be spoken of as one of the great managers of Liverpool he will have to improve on his record against the top four teams (which is terrible). Until this happens, Liverpool will continue to play for fourth place.

[Manofthebog]

I also think its nieve to put no blame on Rafa. Responsability needs to be shared, but some people on this forum can see no wrong. Blind faith to some extent, which is as stupid as it is admirable.

Yep, he ****s up, name me a manager who hasn't ****ed up?

I haven't got "blind faith", as you put it, I just see Rafa as being the ideal man for the job. Give him the money to do his job properly, and see where we go.

If he doesn't get us the wholy grail in another season or so, then, yep, fire the bloke, but until he's had ago at getting the "best" players he wants, let's not be too hasty to judge.

[Manofthebog]

They have **** all to do with recent results IMO

I mean was it their fault our defense let the useless pile of ****e, Bramble, get a shot in? NO

Was it their fault, we were a calamity att he back for the boro goal? NO

Was it their fault we couldnt score more than 1 away against Luton? NO

Was it their fault we had 5 minutes of rotten luck against villa? **** NO

They are being used an an excuse.

Nope, it's a factor, a big factor.