Xabi - or not Xabi

[Howard_lfc]

I see a lot of talk about the perceived problems in our attacking play, but I can't see any threads on our shambolic defence?

We are used to keeping clean sheet after clean sheet, yet on Monday Villa nabbed two and then an amateur team get two more yesterday. We're conceding soft goal after soft goal and many of them from set pieces.

We're suddenly all at sea at every set-piece and struggle to defend any kind of high ball into the box.

I realise this is 'off-topic', but the talk of Xabi and our attacking shortcomings just seem a tad unimportant when we have such rotten problems at the back.

When a Benitez team is struggling to get even the basics of defending right, you know you're in trouble.

Scoring at the other end takes the pressure off the defence - which we all know. But yeah - you're right Shaggy - the number of goals conceded from set pieces has been shocking. I wouldn't be surprised if the zonal marking debate came back again.

[redlancer]

Scoring at the other end takes the pressure off the defence - which we all know. But yeah - you're right Shaggy - the number of goals conceded from set pieces has been shocking. I wouldn't be surprised if the zonal marking debate came back again.

anyone think the zonal marking has gone to pot i.e we aint zonal marking

Agree, but we really do need a productive winger/wing back on the left.

to cross it for who? maybe pennant then they could play football tennis.

[Gray]

I had an OG at 12's and that was based on our poor defence. Skets was chalked off.

[Shaggy]

anyone think the zonal marking has gone to pot i.e we aint zonal marking

I think we are zonal marking but I couldn't tell you what's gone wrong with it. ****ed if I know, although it's obvious that some players are going to sleep, so to speak, which is down to concentration issues, which in turn relates to preparation and focus - something that has obviously been affected lately.

Still - it's no excuse.

I'm in favour of zonal-marking but the one thing I hate about our system is bringing all ten outfield players back into our box - no matter what the opposition and no matter what the situation in the game is.

Against H&V we really, really ought to be leaving one up - at least. Also, when we're losing a game and/or need a goal desperately, we will still always, ALWAYS bring ten men back. It's ridiculous and so bloody over-cautious. I wish Rafa would drop it.

*sorry for taking this off-topic

[CAD]

So name me one then. One that we can afford obviously.

With Gerrard, Lucas and Mascher I would be happy to sell Alonso and get Diego instead.

Xabi would do better in Spain anyway imho.

[dww]

I think we are zonal marking but I couldn't tell you what's gone wrong with it. ****ed if I know, although it's obvious that some players are going to sleep, so to speak, which is down to concentration issues, which in turn relates to preparation and focus - something that has obviously been affected lately.

Still - it's no excuse.

I'm in favour of zonal-marking but the one thing I hate about our system is bringing all ten outfield players back into our box - no matter what the opposition and no matter what the situation in the game is.

Against H&V we really, really ought to be leaving one up - at least. Also, when we're losing a game and/or need a goal desperately, we will still always, ALWAYS bring ten men back. It's ridiculous and so bloody over-cautious. I wish Rafa would drop it.

*sorry for taking this off-topic

I think that you are right to highlight focus but I think the key is confidence. The thing about zonal marking which is different to man to man psychologically is that you have to have confidence that everyone else will do their job or the system falls apart - in man to man you concentrate on one man and responsibility is obvious for an error in zonal marking there are more grey areas and hence people can feel it is not their error and blame others.

For me the lack of confidence in one another and individually is to blame - exacerbated by the slowness of getting the ball out of defense. We allow too much pressure on ourselves and end up giving away freekick in dangerous areas when we should have started a counter attack.

On the subject of having ten men back. I'm inclined to agree with you but I have noticed that United and most other teams do it now. I think the difference again is our failure to move the ball out and start counter attacks. For me this is where the attacking players would take the pressure off our defense.

Also Sami can't play so many games. He has done outstandingly well but sometimes he just looks a bit tired and in zonal marking when we aren't playing well that can cause problems elsewhere.

[tomasjj]

Xabi is class.
Stick SG on the right in a free role - unleash the beast

:shakey:

[reddragon]

I have always liked Alonso but have always thought he was expendable, certainly since we had Masch/lucas in reserve, however this season has made me have a rethink and its now I think it was an on form Xabi that made us the good team that we were/are.

Since his dip in form/rotation we havent been the same and I am now of the opinion that its Xabi that is the real general of our midfield.

Keep him.

at times in the first half yesterday i thought we could do with him marshalling our midfield - keeping everyone calm and initiasting some decent passing moves

[Nicey]

Given up not swearing then mate ??

Only bring out the f bomb on special occasions this I thought was one of them fella

[Howard_lfc]

With Gerrard, Lucas and Mascher I would be happy to sell Alonso and get Diego instead.

Xabi would do better in Spain anyway imho.

I like Diego. I'd let Lucas and Masher go before Xabi though.

Xabi is class.
Stick SG on the right in a free role - unleash the beast

:shakey:

Has gotta happen IMO.

[carheex]

Couldn't disagree more and if we sell him I would be seriously concerned about our ambitions.

Apart from most of his first season he's been a bit of a passenger. We should sell him and use the cash to buy players in positions where we are weakest. Selling him WOULD show ambition as the squad needs strengthening in all areas except central midfield.

[CAD]

I like Diego. I'd let Lucas and Masher go before Xabi though.

I would keep Lucas and Mascher before Xabi. He has been a shadow of himself since the first season. He's too easy to shut down because he can't dribble and carry the ball. On top he has very little pace. Result is he has to rely on his passing 24/7 and all the managers know this now. The fact that we have little width on the team makes it even harder for Alonso. He doesn't score enough and he doens't assist enough either. Not when you consider that he has played the advanced CM quite a few times the past three years.

I admire your loyalty though, Les

[Howard_lfc]

With Gerrard, Lucas and Mascher I would be happy to sell Alonso and get Diego instead.

Xabi would do better in Spain anyway imho.

I would keep Lucas and Mascher before Xabi. He has been a shadow of himself since the first season. He's too easy to shut down because he can't dribble and carry the ball. On top he has very little pace. Result is he has to rely on his passing 24/7 and all the managers know this now. The fact that we have little width on the team makes it even harder for Alonso. He doesn't score enough and he doens't assist enough either. Not when you consider that he has played the advanced CM quite a few times the past three years.

I admire your loyalty though, Les

Fair enough.

But the same could be said of Masher: can't dribble, cant carry the ball(?), doesn't score at all(!) and doesn't assist at all. He's not exactly quick (not slow either) and his passing leaves alot to be desired. I know - let's splash £17m on him.....
I would also argue that results with Xabi in the team are better than those with masher in the team although I can't prove that as I don't have the stats to hand.

[Guest]

Mascher is a defensive midfielder. It's a specialist position. No one can do what he does in this team. He can pass the ball fairly well and has a fantastic engine. Does have the capacity to drive forward to.

As for Xabi, he's more of a passer than anything else. He's a bit like Jan Molby.

Great options to have in a team.

[CAD]

Fair enough.

But the same could be said of Masher: can't dribble, cant carry the ball(?), doesn't score at all(!) and doesn't assist at all. He's not exactly quick (not slow either) and his passing leaves alot to be desired. I know - let's splash £17m on him.....
I would also argue that results with Xabi in the team are better than those with masher in the team although I can't prove that as I don't have the stats to hand.

The diff for me is that Alonso was shoehorned into a HM role. Mascher is a natural. He covers more ground and closes more holes when we're not in possession. It should allow Gerrard and others more freedom going forward. I understand that is very argumentive and without much substance but that's how I see it. We look a bit more stale with Alonso as a HM. Less drive and aggression imho. To move Gerrard to the right and play Alonso as an advanced CM would be beyond stupid. He simply doesn't offer enough forward and Gerrard destroys all balance because he doesn't stay wide.

Alonso would do better in a different system without a outright HM but with another central midfielder he could share both defensive and offensive responsibilities with. Even better in a 5 man midfield with some fast wingers.

He would do better in Spain as far as I can see. Less tempo and more time on the ball. That's what he needs.