What's gone wrong this season?

[mersey86]

The benefit of rotation being that, after some slowness getting going we have always ended the season strongly. Just when we should have been moving up a few gears the Yanks deflated the tyres. You'll see it different bigfooty as you clearly made up your mind against Rafa a long time ago, but there was a lot of reason for hope this season. City was unlucky (a win there and we were right in the hunt) and things have gone horribly wrong since. The Klinnsman thing for me was the real horror.
Rafa is not blameless, but he's done great things for Liverpool and talk of improvement or out is premature and disappointing. He's not a Houllier.

[Marky]

In short, on the pitch we've been very very poor.

-Our squad lacks quality in depth.
-We have no width...again
-Very few flair players. Only 2 real match winners in Torres and Gerrard.
-Our emphasis is always on defending rather than attacking.
We concentrate on nullifying threats from other sides rather than focusing on taking the game to them. Rafa is far too negative.
-Rotation is fine if our squad players are any good. Kuyt, Voronin, Riise, Pennant, Kewell and Sissoko are not good enough and never will be.
-Players off form. Finnan's loss of form has been alarming this season. He looks finished which is shocking considering he has been one of our most consistent players for years. Carra, Momo, Arbeloa and Kuyt have all had poor seasons, especially the latter who probably wouldn't get into any of the premiership's top 10 sides let alone be regular. Alonso has struggled since returning from injury.
-Agger's injury.


Rafa's a legend in the CL, the absolute best there is. But in the premiership he's failed. 4 years without a title challenge is nowhere near good enough. I think he should be given till the end of the season to see if he can turn us around. If by the end of the season we continue as we're doing now, turning in poor performance after poor performance and there's a sense that he's lost the dressing room then maybe we should consider replacing him.

Ironically, the one factor which may save him at the end of the season is the off field upheaval. No doubt it's had an effect on him personally as well as the team's morale and that could be used as an excuse for the team's poor performance and thus give hm more time at the helm.

[Shaggy]

[Jazzmaster]

Our club has been so messed up by the Americans. I can understand some frustration at recent performances, but before these Yanks stirred up the pot things were looking great. I am certain that we will be taking a huge step backwards if we let Rafa go. He has built Liverpool up so that they have a better youth structure, a stronger squad (with some outstanding young players - Reina, Agger, Torres, Masher, Babel all being good for many years to come), and a good standing in international football again after our Champions League displays. All he needs (and all we want now) is the league. Some of us are so desperate for it that we are looking to throw out the baby with the bathwater. It would be a mistake ... and the fact that many Liverpool fans would endorse that mistake makes me very sad.

The league is the gauge of where we are at. The league reflects the teams performance over the entire season and the points do not lie come May. Benitez has done well in the cup competitions but has consistently underperformed in the league and the team have gone backwards this season if anything. I dont think any of the goings-on behind the scenes caused us to draw with villa birmingham spurs blackburn etc but rather the negative tactics of the manager. The american debacle has not helped matters but if we were top of the league when it happened (unrealistic i know but u get the point) then we could have a better idea of how much an effect the instability has had. I personally cannot see a huge difference between our form pre and post Klinsmanngate and therefore have difficulty in ascertaining the damage the whole affair has done the the performance of the team.

[Rich]

Lots of analysis and over analysis - and while we've struggled you can point to having been beaten only twice in the league as a "positive" not bad for a team that has major attacking flaws and "can't defend for toffee"

Obviously there are faults, and we haven't performed to a level which we should aspire to, but I'm still of the opinion that Rafa is the bloke I want to see manager our great club.

[Jazzmaster]

Lots of analysis and over analysis - and while we've struggled you can point to having been beaten only twice in the league as a "positive" not bad for a team that has major attacking flaws and "can't defend for toffee"

Obviously there are faults, and we haven't performed to a level which we should aspire to, but I'm still of the opinion that Rafa is the bloke I want to see manager our great club.

I wish he had what it takes to win the league i really do. He has everything i want from a liverpool mananger - grace, confidence, authority, class and obviously loves the club and what it stands for - however i just cant see the team reaching another level under his style of management. I love rafa, i just have no confidence in him anymore. I feel nervous and negative before every match.....

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

Rafa's a legend in the CL, the absolute best there is. But in the premiership he's failed. 4 years without a title challenge is nowhere near good enough. I think he should be given till the end of the season to see if he can turn us around. If by the end of the season we continue as we're doing now, turning in poor performance after poor performance and there's a sense that he's lost the dressing room then maybe we should consider replacing him.

Ironically, the one factor which may save him at the end of the season is the off field upheaval. No doubt it's had an effect on him personally as well as the team's morale and that could be used as an excuse for the team's poor performance and thus give hm more time at the helm.

Perhaps it has, but should it save him? I think RS4 has been bang on with his assessment that Rafa has cannily used the majority of our support, against the Yanks, to deflect attention away from what's been happening the pitch; massive underachievement.

I hate to keep going on about it, but the Reading game was a reality check for me where Rafa and the league was concerned. Do you honestly think Wenger, Demento or Cuntface would’ve binned that game? No they’d have thrown the ****ing kitchen sink at it to salvage something. What Rafa did screamed of negativity, and we haven’t recovered since.

I don't want this to become another Rafa debate, he's not the only one responsible (win and lose as a team and all that) but right now I'm not sure he should get another season. I hope that he stops making silly ****in team selections, using peculiar formations, using players out of position and nonsensical rotations which defy logic. For example Benayoun scored a hatrick this weekend, yet we all know he's nowhere near certain to start against West Ham on Wednesday. No wonder player morale seems to be in the toilet and most players aren't performing. Selection doesn't seem to be based on form. It's a vicious cycle that's hindering rather than helping IMO.

Between now and May I'd like to see evidence of him learning from his mistakes, picking a settled team the rest of the season - isn't that why he's rotated thus far? - and allowing the players to play with more freedom. Forget the cups, I'm talking about in relation to league performance, not in results but performances, Rafa trusting his players with intent to attack from the first, don't care about the top 4. Not ****ing interested, Sky can shove it. I want to see a change of philosophy, gain some momentum, something which we can build on for next season.

But I just can't see it.

[mersey86]

Perhaps it has, but should it save him? I think RS4 has been bang on with his assessment that Rafa has cannily used the majority of our support, against the Yanks, to deflect attention away from what's been happening the pitch; massive underachievement.

Strongly object. Rafa should have our further support for standing up to the Yanks. Very cynical to say he's using it. Why would he? He could walk into a less stressful job than this in a heartbeat. We need Rafa far more than he needs us.
The term "massive underachievement" itself suggests that you believe Rafa has built a title-winning team - otherwise why would a 2-defeat season be massively below potential? You just don't believe he can finish the job. I'm afraid he won't get the chance .. and I'm pessimistic to the possibility that in 10-20 years time many will bitterly regret his departure.

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

Strongly object. Rafa should have our further support for standing up to the Yanks. Very cynical to say he's using it. Why would he? He could walk into a less stressful job than this in a heartbeat. We need Rafa far more than he needs us.
The term "massive underachievement" itself suggests that you believe Rafa has built a title-winning team - otherwise why would a 2-defeat season be massively below potential? You just don't believe he can finish the job. I'm afraid he won't get the chance .. and I'm pessimistic to the possibility that in 10-20 years time many will bitterly regret his departure.

Yes but in what way is standing up to the Yanks - which I don't think he has - done for club? They could've easily sacked him, then it would've been a pointless stupid thing to do.

I think he's been very clever with his use of the media getting us, the fans on his side after the revelations re Klinsmann. He's used us as a bargaining chip to strengthen his own position, I don't hold it against him, but that's the way I see it.

Title winning team? No I'll agree it isn't, but we should be closer, out of contention in January, not good enough. 2 years ago we finished 3rd only 10 points behind the champions and we won the FA cup. We've regressed badly since.

And where has only been beaten twice gotten us? 6th in the table, below the ****ing ****e.

If that isn't massive underachievement I don't know what is.

Of course in the cups he's ace, but that's not what concerns me.

[mersey86]

Yes but in what way is standing up to the Yanks - which I don't think he has - done for club? They could've easily sacked him, then it would've been a pointless stupid thing to do.
People may say he could then walk away with the money, but I think he's unhappy with what's going on behind the scenes and has decided it needs to be changed or his position and ability to manage the club is untenable

I think he's been very clever with his use of the media getting us, the fans on his side after the revelations re Klinsmann. The fans were always going to turn on Hicks after that - nothing from Rafa needed. He's used us as a bargaining chip to strengthen his own position, I don't hold it against him, but that's the way I see it.

Title winning team? No I'll agree it isn't, but we should be closer, out of contention in January, not good enough. 2 years ago we finished 3rd only 10 points behind the champions and we won the FA cup. We've regressed badly since. Again, we'd be a lot closer without the distractions - if Rafa partially provoked them, I state that it was with the club's future (which he has established) in mind

And where has only been beaten twice gotten us? 6th in the table, below the ****ing ****e. Well we brought in Torres to fill a gap where we were falling short - he's done that. Kuyt's huge dip in form has offset that. If Kuyt can get his confidence back, Agger gets fit and we add 1 quality player out wide, we could be very close.

If that isn't massive underachievement I don't know what is.
If underachievement at this stage = 8+ points behind the leaders, then massive underachievement would be double that. Therefore achieving our potential would see us challenging.

Of course in the cups he's ace, but that's not what concerns me.

[mersey86]

To answer your main point, though, yes tactics to counter the opposition's strength don't go down too well with people who've grown up with Beardsley, Barnes, Aldridge et al walking over our opponents, and especially not in view of the current Man Utd and Arsenal teams. We are clearly very cautious in comparison and that caution can be said to have cost us a lot of points. I feel your Reading point is very weak - I agree with Rafa in that instance, but I do feel some of your pain on our not trying to steam-roller weaker teams at Anfield. There were signs of that this year. I hope we can get it back - I think Rafa is more likely to get us there than any alternative.

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

To answer your main point, though, yes tactics to counter the opposition's strength don't go down too well with people who've grown up with Beardsley, Barnes, Aldridge et al walking over our opponents, and especially not in view of the current Man Utd and Arsenal teams. We are clearly very cautious in comparison and that caution can be said to have cost us a lot of points. I feel your Reading point is very weak - I agree with Rafa in that instance, but I do feel some of your pain on our not trying to steam-roller weaker teams at Anfield. There were signs of that this year. I hope we can get it back - I think Rafa is more likely to get us there than any alternative.

Re Reading, why don't you agree? Seriously mate, what was your reaction when he took Torres, then Gerrard off when we were 3-1 down, can you honestly tell me you weren't seriously pissed off about that? At the time we were I believe 6 or 7 points behind Arsenal and still right in it. Even fighting back for a point would've kept our unbeaten streak going.

I don't think he's necessarily too defensive. Look at how Chelsea won the league twice under Mourinho. It's our ability to attack teams that's the concern, and the way we do it, we lack movement, creativity, in some cases ability and more than anything belief. Playing one up top at home to Wigan was laughable.

But these things are all reversible. The most frustrating part is that at Valencia his teams there played the kind of football we would like to see here, yet with us he seems to have adopted a completely different philosophy. For example do you think he would've signed a player like Kuyt while at Valencia?

I hope he turns it around, but I get the impression that he's set in his ways re his methods, and they just aren't working, are they?

[Kopite_Colin]

That's the worst trait about Rafa - his stubbornness. But conversely, it's probably what's made him a success throughout his career to date too. It just doesn't seem to work here. I'm finding it tough that in the last 10 years we've had 2 managers who appear to be stubborn through and through and wont change things even when the league results aren't good enough - and it's as plain as the nose on your face.

I'd like to think Rafa will change it to make it work, but I do have my doubts. My last hope is that if he has sufficient money available to buy quality going forward he will eradicate the inconsistency from out game - but I'm yet to be convinced. Fingers crossed.

[paulcooper4]

What's gone wrong this season?

We have played like a shower of spineless pricks. Too many players have proved they dont have what it takes "upstairs" to take us where we want to go. And a few just dont have the ability.

I expect a fair bit of turnaround in the summer for this squad.

Big decisions for Rafa in the summer.

[tomasjj]

How can you still harp on about Reading?

Have you not read the points others have written about this?

We had a must win game a few days later...against Marseille away.
Rafa's job was on the line.
AND we needed the cash from advancing as well.
AND we were 2 goals down away with 10 or 15 minutes left...

I hate to give in, but I can understand why he did it, lack of intent or not.