Liverpool is a city of fighters, and that is what I will do. So I'll fight..

[desertscouser]

Rushing out to the pub now so I only read the first sentence. Finnnan is a shadow of hi former self. He needs replacing.

[desertscouser]

Enjoy mate

Will do. Looking forward to getting smashed. Look out for my pissed up posts in 12 hrs time.


Wish I was hitting Anfield today but an all dayer in a pub in Cyprus will have to do.

[Skillz]

Who gives a f*ck about 82 points in 1 season out of 4? The most important statistic is ZERO title challenges in 4 years. But of course you can keep holding on to the 82 points statistic which in the grand scheme of things means absolutely f**k all.

It would be great if Rafa turns it around, every LFC fan would want that to happen but time is now running out and there's no doubt that he's been a failure in the league.

He said Rafa has been nothing short of ****e in the league mate. I disagreed. We all want to win the PL but I am being honest with myself and my expectations of what is realistic. Up until xmas we were challenging, something has gone wrong and I am not prepared to lay all blame at Rafa's door, sack him and replace him with a yes man.

If we demand the title we can appoint a manager and give him 2 or 3 years, he fails, and he will, and sack him. I believe if we go that route we will talked about in the same vain as Newcastle and Spurs before long.

You say Rafa has failed in the league, I say give him time he will get it right. Up until xmas I have been pretty happy with his progress, what has happened since has been a disaster but sacking him on this is a mistake IMO.

[Guest]

Ferguson's experience with United is a genuine one off. There are plenty of other instances where clubs have gone nowhere by keeping faith with the manager in charge. Can you imagine where we'd be if GH was still in charge? And there were plenty here who wanted him to stay. Time and patience is admirable and can work but it's not always the answer.

As for you blaming the off field problems for our shambles of a season...well, it has had an effect, that's for certain but by no means is it the sole reason. I believe the players have alot to answer for but for me the main reason why we've been so poor this season is Rafa and hi decision making. 56 million quid and our first 11 hasn't improved. Mediocre players still litter the first 11.

The buck stops with Rafa

I'm off to the pub

It hasn't been 56m quids, but more closer to 25 odd millions.

The players as professionals just have to believe in what Rafa and his coaching team are doing, instead of reading newspapers and entering the debate into rotation or who needs to play in place of Kuyt. That would greatly help.

Problem is, neither of our other forwards are good enough to cement a place alongside Torres. They're all in and out of the team. That's not good for continuity. Rafa is tied to the players who aren't performing.

[AFII]

The problem is that Rafa had to build a team challenging for a top four place and not challenge for the title.

We needed the CL money so he couldn't take the chance to sign one quality player instead of three squad players. If the quality player got injured then we would probably miss out on the CL.

He had to build up the team from top to bottom and that includes the Academy.

[Kopite_Colin]

Ferguson got 7 years, so why not ? He was pretty **** when he started, the time it got the entire club to espouse his philosophy and getting it ingrained in them. It's all a question of believing what he's doing. I am.

That's exactly the the problem for me though, Fredo. I don't necessarily want Rafa's footballing philosophy totally engrained through our club. Because what I've seen of it so far I think it's completely wrong. Same as I thought Houllier's was.

1) Negative / defensive-minded first attitude.
2) Absolute obessession with tactics (even in the most basic of PL games)
3) Constant ****ing rotation (aaaaaaaaagggggh!)
4) Substituions too late to change the game / wrong substitutions
5) Constant unwillingness to drop players who persistently underperform / out of form
6) Failure rate with bringing in goalscoring attacking players into the club and getting the best out of them
7) playing players out of position (I hate this one most of all)
8) inability to bring in attacking players this window when we DESPERATELY needed some fresh faces (this point may be more to do with current off the field issues than Rafa - so he's spared that one)

Couple the above with his recent apparent inability to motivate the players and we have a truly, truly dire situation developing which in my lifetime (I'm 42) is only comparable to the awful football we played under the last days of Houllier.

Something has to change. And if Rafa can't change himself, his attitude, or the players (and their attitude & performances), then we (sadly) have to change the manager.

But hopefully first we'll change the owners. And start from the top down.

[Guest]

That's exactly the the problem for me though, Fredo. I don't necessarily want Rafa's footballing philosophy totally engrained through our club. Because what I've seen of it so far I think it's completely wrong. Same as I thought Houllier's was.

1) Negative / defensive-minded first attitude.
2) Absolute obessession with tactics (even in the most basic of PL games)
3) Constant ****ing rotation (aaaaaaaaagggggh!)
4) Substituions too late to change the game / wrong substitutions
5) Constant unwillingness to drop players who persistently underperform / out of form
6) Failure rate with bringing in goalscoring attacking players into the club and getting the best out of them
7) playing players out of position (I hate this one most of all)
8) inability to bring in attacking players this window when we DESPERATELY needed some fresh faces (this point may be more to do with current off the field issues than Rafa - so he's spared that one)

Couple the above with his recent apparent inability to motivate the players and we have a truly, truly dire situation developing which in my lifetime (I'm 42) is only comparable to the awful football we played under the last days of Houllier.

Something has to change. And if Rafa can't change himself, his attitude, or the players (and their attitude & performances), then we (sadly) have to change the manager.

I see your point but Rafa won't change. Every successful manager will stand by his philosophy. Stubbornness is a quality for a coach.

As for defensive minded tactics, I don't think it's fair. We've been banging on the goals at the start of the season and we played excellent attacking football. Our form lately hasn't been good and it's shown in our style of play. That's understandable. Any reader of the game will tell you that when we don't play well, we have to get the basics right, that is above all getting the defensive mindset spot on, the take it at another level.

I do agree though that he needs to be a bit more flexible with substitutions, and not be as predictable as he is right now. When a player isn't performing, he needs to replace him, not wait until the last 20 mins.

[AFII]

The defensive minded tactic really only started when Agger got injured. Hyypia is to slow to allow us to play attacking football week in week out.

Sometimes we can do that when he is fresh but sometimes we need to sit back because he will be tired from the previous game.

[Kopite_Colin]

Stubbornness is a quality for a coach.

To a point but then it becomes a liability.

That's what separates the good managers from the great ones - their self-awareness and knowing when to change. To recognise when they've made a mistake.

For the most part, Rafa doesn't appear to be learning.

[carlton]

He`d been chatting with his mate, lucas neill.

nothing sinister, just strange that, mate or not, you would be giggling. The man just doesnt give 2 ****s. You could have had the worlds finest stand up comedians telling carra the worlds funniest jokes on his way off the pitch and he`d have still offered them out.

All he does kewell these days anyway is pull out of tackles and jump about 10 feet in the air if he even smells a sliding tackle on its way. The man is a piece of **** and it grates me to the core to know he has ever worn our shirt.

" Hey Lucas can you believe Im getting 60,000 quid a week to wear a LFC shirt and do fuc* all week in week out?"

[Guest]

The defensive minded tactic really only started when Agger got injured. Hyypia is to slow to allow us to play attacking football week in week out.

Sometimes we can do that when he is fresh but sometimes we need to sit back because he will be tired from the previous game.

Agger isn't really a fast defender too mate but I see your point.

It's all about an ensemble of things for us to play attacking football like Arsenal and United. It's all about having great ball playing center backs, great wingers and strikers.

In all these areas, United and Arsenal are better than us, simple.

Ferdinand is great at coming from the back and playing the ball neatly to launch attacks, likewise for Arsenal, with Kolo Toure as much of an attacking force than a defensive one. Add to that the fact that their full backs are always getting forward, putting teams on the back foot.

We can only do what's best within our limits, and Rafa has certainly done great in that sense.

[paulcooper4]

" Hey Lucas can you believe Im getting 60,000 quid a week to wear a LFC shirt and do fuc* all week in week out?"

**** that mate, i turned it down for even more money in a team that has no pressure on it

[Guest]

To a point but then it becomes a liability.

That's what separates the good managers from the great ones - their self-awareness and knowing when to change. To recognise when they've made a mistake.

For the most part, Rafa doesn't appear to be learning.

Ferguson is the same. He persisted with Tevez and Rooney in attack whilst being similar players. Some journalists were even predicting they weren't good to play as a partnership. He made it work though, but that's equally down to the quality of the players than that of the manager.

We simply don't have the same quality. That's why we're short. It's simple really.

With quality players all round (as good if not better than our main competitors), I'm sure Rafa would have been outstanding. But he's having to work within financial constraints, cue his moaning when he's trying to sign players.

I just think that I can't see many managers turning things around, taking in mind the restlessness of some of our fans and the fact we've got instability off the field. It will be the same all over again.

Money, as well as good managers, wins league titles. We've had money yes, but not enough to overcome our rivals. Now it's leveling out and teams such as City and Everton are catching up.

One Torres doesn't make us a great team.

[tomasjj]

11 sendings off, all for 2 footed head height flying lunges at the opposition manager

[1 True Red]

Liverpool is a city of fighters, and that is what I will do. So I'll fight.. maybe for 10 years!
BARCLAYS PREMIER LEAGUE Liverpool v Sunderland, today, Kick-off 5.15pm BENITEZ CRISIS BATTLE-CRY

David Maddock 02/02/2008

Rafael Benitez insisted last night he will lead from the front as he demanded character to end Liverpool 's depressing fall from grace.

The Anfield boss believes any change must start with him, as he looks for the win he believes will re-ignite a desperately disappointing campaign.

Liverpool have not won in the Premier League for five matches, and the Spanish coach admitted that the underperforming aristocrats have a duty to their fans to end such a dismal run.

His team have taken just four points from their last 15, and since early December, 10 points from 27. Over the same period, leaders Manchester United have accumulated 27 points from a possible 30.

That, Benitez knows, is nowhere near good enough, and last night he stood up and accepted the blame.

"It starts with me, I know that. How can a side improve if their manager isn't positive? If the manager's head is down, he can not see anything," he said.

"Liverpool's history is as a city of fighters, and that is what I will do, fight. I will fight on for as long as I can - maybe for 10 more years!

"It is time to show character now, but not just for the players.

The staff have to take responsibility and give our supporters what they deserve, just as much as the players."

Liverpool entertain Sunderland today in a game Benitez knows is a must-win if he is not to be engulfed in a full-blown crisis at Anfield.

And he knows too the time for analysis and tactical tinkering is over, because instead, good old-fashioned bottle and character is required to get the team out of the mess they have been in.

Yesterday Benitez showed his spirit by insisting that he is the man to get them out of their current troubles.

"When in a difficult situation you always need strong characters, and that can be the difference between a winning team or not," he explained.

"We need to show this, and I'm sure we have players of that mentality. But the staff need to show this too, because in times like these you need to have the courage to understand that you must trust your players and push them.

"I will try to find the solution.

I will work hard with my staff and players and you need the commitment of everyone. I think I have that commitment." Benitez has indulged his side over the past month, often to no avail, but after the midweek embarrassment at West Ham he has told them exactly what is required - and he expects them to respond.

"It would be easy to say we don't have the character or desire throughout the team.

But I am expecting something from the players," said Benitez.

"The players know they have a responsibility. There are a lot of people behind them and we need to improve our performance. We need to give 120 per cent now if we can.

"As a manager, you must support your players if they give you and the club 100 per cent. It is sometimes hard to judge if they are doing that, but the players and the staff know everyone needs to improve."

Should he lose to Sunderland today, then the Liverpool manager's job would surely be on the line. But he insisted last night that he has no thoughts of ever quitting Anfield.

"If I think it's impossible here, maybe I could look at other options. But I'm not thinking about that. I think we can win titles, and win the Premier League.

"Not this year, it would be almost impossible, but in the future. We have got through to finals and won trophies. I am positive we can improve as a club and win more."

Benitez will make changes today, with Javier Mascherano and possibly Peter Crouch coming into contention.

LIVERPOOL V SUNDERLAND LIVE ON SETANTA 5.15PM

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/2008/02/02/liverpool-is-a-city-of-fighters-and-that-is-what--will-do-so-i-ll-fight-maybe-for-10-years-89520-20306413/

A spot on article is that

Its time everyone stood up and be counted(Players, Staff, and Rafa inc) at the moment we are playing like a lower division club, hard facts i know but, TRUE. The off field antics are not helping of course but ffs, we are a professional Club, the players are paid enormously high wages to put in a performance that reflects the wages they are paid but truth be told, their NOT.

Comooooooooon you redmen, show us the true bottle you should have starting with a commanding win today