Rafa - is he any good? ;)

[sinbad]

sorry to be picky, but remind me, how many years has Wenger been manager at Arsenal.

Then how many years was it until he won the league/anything major, say like the Champions League.

Er......Did the double in his first full season.
Won the league twice in his first 3 seasons.

[Manofthebog]

Er......Did the double in his first full season.
Won the league twice in his first 3 seasons.

Exactly.

[Dhav]

Er......Did the double in his first full season.
Won the league twice in his first 3 seasons.

Just to clarify, Wenger joined Arsenal on 1 October 1996, so that's about 10 month before his first full season began.

He won the league in 1998, then 2002 and 2004. He has failed to win back-to-back league titles or the CL, unlike both Mourinho and Fergiescum.

Havign said that, I still believe he is the best manager in the PL.

Incidentally, according to Wikipedia, it was Houllier who recommended Wenger to David Dein.

[el matador]

there are always those who favour rafa continuing as our manager and they may have a point. Rafa with 2 world class full backs, with 2 world class winger and a second striker may produce a team to genuinely challenge for the title.

I have my doubts about rafa. If he hadnt have messed about with the team earlier in the season I dont think we would have had the slump that we did. Given we've had some injury problems but I think his tinkering is at the heart of our **** season.

Its just too easy to blame the off-pitch situation. Once the players get out onto that pitch all they think about is playing.

If DIC come in - he will be given another season with his 2 full backs, 2 wingers and a second striker.

Then we'll see just how good rafa benitez is.

[Manofthebog]

Give Rafa the money, another season, if he don't cut the mustard fine.

Would be a shame to get rid of him without giving him a chance to splash the cash.

When he's been given large amounts of wonger, looks who he 's attracted.

[el matador]

Give Rafa the money, another season, if he don't cut the mustard fine.

Would be a shame to get rid of him without giving him a chance to splash the cash.

When he's been given large amounts of wonger, looks who he 's attracted.

yeah - dirk kuyt

only kidding but he did cost nearly £10m - its not world class level but it isnt chicken feed either

someone once reported in the spanish media that rafa was a very good manager and was very astute at lots of things - signing players wasnt one of them.

[IJM]

...

If DIC come in - he will be given another season with his 2 full backs, 2 wingers and a second striker.

Then we'll see just how good rafa benitez is.

Yes. I agree. Think about this, how much deadwood has he had to get rid of? How often has he gotten his first choice player, especially wingers? He hasn't yet had access to any top class winger and every one we've had so far hasn't been his top choice or has been a gamble on a youngster.

Get first choice players for the positions you identify above and see how he does.

[homer1]

Give Rafa the money, another season, if he don't cut the mustard fine.

Would be a shame to get rid of him without giving him a chance to splash the cash.

When he's been given large amounts of wonger, looks who he 's attracted.

100% agree. I'm a Rafa fan and rightly or wrongly I believe if he had a better quality of player available then they would start more often then not. Rotation is in his blood, he believes in it and that will not change in theory - however I would hazard a guess that if he had the money to sign a couple more quality players, then we would not see the same number of changes each week. Trouble has been we have had too many squad players not taking advantage of their opportunities to stake their claim, therefore the need to change more regularly

You can safely say Reina, Carra, Mascherano, Gerrard & Torres are cast iron starters week in week out (except occasional rests which is fine). The rest of the team this season has been made up of people who have not performed well enough to play each game and therefore there have been many changes. If he could recruit a top striker, even 1 x decent winger & 1 or 2 full backs, they would also play more often than not and therefore we would have the nucleas of the same team starting regularly

Arguement is of course that it is he who keeps buying the squad players & he should live or die based on it. I would be of the opinion that he gets a decent amount of money to spend on 2 or 3 top players to go straight into the first team, shifting some of the deadwood squaddies in the process and if he doesn't make a realistic challenge then it'll be time for a change

[Exiled_red]

100% agree. I'm a Rafa fan and rightly or wrongly I believe if he had a better quality of player available then they would start more often then not. Rotation is in his blood, he believes in it and that will not change in theory - however I would hazard a guess that if he had the money to sign a couple more quality players, then we would not see the same number of changes each week. Trouble has been we have had too many squad players not taking advantage of their opportunities to stake their claim, therefore the need to change more regularly

You can safely say Reina, Carra, Mascherano, Gerrard & Torres are cast iron starters week in week out (except occasional rests which is fine). The rest of the team this season has been made up of people who have not performed well enough to play each game and therefore there have been many changes. If he could recruit a top striker, even 1 x decent winger & 1 or 2 full backs, they would also play more often than not and therefore we would have the nucleas of the same team starting regularly

Arguement is of course that it is he who keeps buying the squad players & he should live or die based on it. I would be of the opinion that he gets a decent amount of money to spend on 2 or 3 top players to go straight into the first team, shifting some of the deadwood squaddies in the process and if he doesn't make a realistic challenge then it'll be time for a change

Totally agree with that

[IJM]

I think it'll make a significant difference when he's rotating out our top class players for our better squad players. As opposed to now when he rotates out a good squad player for a slightly less good squad player.

[Manofthebog]

100% agree. I'm a Rafa fan and rightly or wrongly I believe if he had a better quality of player available then they would start more often then not. Rotation is in his blood, he believes in it and that will not change in theory - however I would hazard a guess that if he had the money to sign a couple more quality players, then we would not see the same number of changes each week. Trouble has been we have had too many squad players not taking advantage of their opportunities to stake their claim, therefore the need to change more regularly

You can safely say Reina, Carra, Mascherano, Gerrard & Torres are cast iron starters week in week out (except occasional rests which is fine). The rest of the team this season has been made up of people who have not performed well enough to play each game and therefore there have been many changes. If he could recruit a top striker, even 1 x decent winger & 1 or 2 full backs, they would also play more often than not and therefore we would have the nucleas of the same team starting regularly

Arguement is of course that it is he who keeps buying the squad players & he should live or die based on it. I would be of the opinion that he gets a decent amount of money to spend on 2 or 3 top players to go straight into the first team, shifting some of the deadwood squaddies in the process and if he doesn't make a realistic challenge then it'll be time for a change

Ah-men, brouver

[DannyMan2006]

I do wonder what would have happened had Owen stayed, or if David Villa or Samuel Eto'o had joined in his firt season. Torres and one of those up front would be class..........

I then wonder what would have happened if our club had been able to push the boat out and get Simao or Alves when we had the chance. In case you haven't noticed Simao went for alot more than we were demanded to pay, and no doubt Alves will go for more than the £12-14m we were asked to cough up.

Then there's Nemanja Vidic, we were in pole position forhim but couldn't come up with an extra £2m. Not to mention Patrice Evra, another player who joined the scum because we couldn't come up with a couple of mill.

It's clear to me that had Rafa been backed we would have been in a better position...............

Of course there is one manager, Wenger, who seems to be able to compete without the top funds, but wearen't exactly gonna be able to get him in charge are we?

With regards to Rafas signings, some have been hits and some have not. But that's the way it goes. Look at Fergie with Veron! One of the greatest Midfielders of his generation, but in football there are no guarantees.

Even David Moyes ****ed up when he splurged his money on James Beattie. Top prem player at the time with his star on the rise, but look where he is now!

----------------

I'm not saying Rafa is the best manager in the world, but I don't see anyone who would come to LFC who I feel will do a better job. And I would like to see where Rafa goes with the youth and reserve teams who are starting to produce quality players. I think he deserves one more season with a good summers spending behind him. 2 CL finals in 3 years gives him that at least (added to league and FA cup finals, and world club and euro super cup finals of course), not to mention the silverware we are still in the hunt for this year.

[IJM]

I'll say one thing for Rafa though. If a player doesn't work out, he gets rid quite ruthlessly. If they don't prove themselves in a year, they're straight out the door.

[AFII]

The difference between when Wenger took over at Arsenal and when Rafa took over us is very big.

Wenger only really had Man U as the big threat and if they had a bad season then they could nick the title. We had a bad manager at that time and wasn't really a threat.

When Rafa took over he had Chelsea with their fantasy money, Man U with their big revenue stream and Arsenal with the squad Wenger had built up to compete with.

That makes a very big difference. If we would have a realistic chance to win the title then at least two of the other big clubs had to have a bad season.

[Rafa Shankly]

sorry lads but do you not get tired of talking about the same thing over and over again,this is how the last DIC thread got ruined.

this exact convo was had about 2 or 3 times alone in it.

can we not just leave the DIC threads for talk about DIC?