Has Rafa always got things wrong, but used to get away with it?

[MascheredUp]

I've thought about this a lot this season.

Cast your minds back to Istanbul.

Yes it was a wonderful night and perhaps yielded too much expectation from us.

He started with the wrong team. We got slaughtered in the first half by Milan. Kewell and Finnan got injured and Rafa was forced to change the team shape/formation. We somehow managed to get to penalties and the rest is history.

We were also quite lucky against the Hammers in the FA cup final, which we also had to win on penalties, arguably a much more inferior team and wouldn't have had the opportunity to do so without the brilliance of Steven Gerrard.

He's been given a lot of leeway with our Champions League triumph with fans hoping he'd get it right. It's mostly his players now that he's brought into the club.

During his reign, he fielded a weakened team in his first Merseyside derby that we lost. He fielded a weakened team against Burnley with the same result. Sadly these selection blunders have constantly plagued Rafa's reign as our manager and cost us time and time again. Always too defensive and always focused on not conceeding before scoring.

Stangely enough, our last three Champions league games (which we had to win) saw our players unshackled and the ability to express themselves. Why the **** shouldn't we be doing that in every game that we play?

His substitutions more times than not leave me baffled and I always wonder what on earth is going through his mind sometimes and what on earth he's always jotting down on the sidelines.

This season has hit a new low for me and have lost complete faith.

[Nic83]

Yes. the simple things. He got away with it as people thought it was just teething problems. Sadly, it's now obvious it isn't.

[Jennings]

If winning the CL was luck then :-
A) we wouldn't have got to 2 finals
b) Another English team would have had similar luck.

[Fowler_God]

Christ, people are now questioning number 5 as being lucky. Sounds to me that some people are listening to much to the bitters, Mancs and the national press.

Rafa gave us one of the best nights of our lives in 2005. I'm to young to remember Shankly and Paisley days, but i bet they had a few shocking games or a dodgy few months. Yet fans still showed them the respect they deserved for what they did for us all.

[Nic83]

I don't think anyone thinks we were lucky. They are questioning Rafa's ability to take us to a LEAGUE title. and rightly so.

[Joe King]

If winning the CL was luck then :-
A) we wouldn't have got to 2 finals
b) Another English team would have had similar luck.

a) Milan have been to 2 finals
b) Arsenal?

[Jennings]

BenTover, I hope we are as lucky as Arsenal over the next 5-6 seasons. I would settle for that. ;-)

[stevie_gerrard_8]

I think the problem lies in the way we play. Our system requires top class players, especially in attacking positions.

We control the game, but never look like scoring. This works around the onctinent but never in england. Now that maybe due to poor attacking training or due to the lack of quality players especially in wide positions. Once we get the ball in attacking positions, the players dont seem to know what they are doing.

I think a perfect example is the English national team. They play the 'English' way and never do anything when playing in major competitions. We play the continental style and struggle in the English game.

[NIGLIV]

I think the problem lies in the way we play. Our system requires top class players, especially in attacking positions.

We control the game, but never look like scoring. This works around the onctinent but never in england. Now that maybe due to poor attacking training or due to the lack of quality players especially in wide positions. Once we get the ball in attacking positions, the players dont seem to know what they are doing.

I think a perfect example is the English national team. They play the 'English' way and never do anything when playing in major competitions. We play the continental style and struggle in the English game.

[reds123]

He got the formation wrong vs Milan in Istanbul, that's for sure. Then rest is history.

Last year Mourinho was right: Chelsea were tired as they had to fight for the league while we as usual were 28 points behind so Rafa could rest his players. Again in Stamford Bridge we were lucky.

Let's not forget that he has not won vs the MAncs while Eriksson did it 2 times in his first season.

Let's not forget how many strikers he has bought..... only 1 up to now was succesful while others bought much better players with low prices... Berbatov, Adebayor.....

Yes Rafa's time is up now.

[Fiddy]

He got the formation wrong vs Milan in Istanbul, that's for sure. Then rest is history. He sure got the tactics right at HT though didn't he!

Last year Mourinho was right: Chelsea were tired as they had to fight for the league while we as usual were 28 points behind so Rafa could rest his players. Again in Stamford Bridge we were lucky.

Let's not forget that he has not won vs the MAncs while Eriksson did it 2 times in his first season.

Let's not forget how many strikers he has bought..... only 1 up to now was succesful while others bought much better players with low prices... Berbatov, Adebayor.....His record isn't actually THAT bad with strikers, Crouch has done alright and Torres is Torres...Wenger spent £10m on Franny Jeffers and Spurs spent £16m on Darren Bent - I don't think Rafa's done much worse than any other top four manager, although so far his defensive signings (e.g. Agger, Arbeloa, Mascherano) seem to be better in general than his more attacking ones.

Yes Rafa's time is up now.

Personally I'd still give Rafa another season (barring a disaster - like not finishing in the top 4) and if we don't mount a SERIOUS title challenge and end up in the top 2, I'd say bye bye

[Craig_H]

He sure got the tactics right at HT though didn't he!

Werent his changes forced by injury, though?

Kewell was injured and so was Finnan.

[sinbad]

Werent his changes forced by injury, though?

Kewell was injured and so was Finnan.

Correct. And in Athens, when Kuyt on his own upfront wasn't working, no sub till the obligatory 70th minute.

Some posters on here called his 70 min Babbel substitution as soon as they saw the starting line up against Barnsley. Low and behold 69min and 30 seconds, off goes Babbel, our best player out there. ****in Mind Boggling tactics that.

[Joe King]

Rafa had to change something in Istanbul. If he didn't, he would have been more than a fool.