Question for those who dont want rafa gone...

[Craig_H]

Mods, please dont merge this or lock it, it's purely intended to ask the couple of questions at the end...

Ok, let's set the scene here. No abuse, no arsey-ness, just a genuine set of observations and then a few questions...

19 points off the top of the league.
Probable 20+ point defecit by the end of the season.
Struggle to finish 4th.
Struggle to knock Luton out of the cup.
Given a scare by part timers.
Dumped out at home by Barnsley.
No title challenge in four years.
Strange team selections.
Odd substitutions.
Bizarre systems.
Players playing out of position.
Persisting with flops.
Arguably boring football.

So, with the above in mind, a few questions...

Is it EVER Rafa's fault, or has ANYTHING been his fault? If so, what?
WILL anything ever be his fault?
At what point SHOULD he have to be made accountable for his actions?
Is there anything that could happen or any point that would make you think "Time for him to go" ? If so, what?
If he's not at fault, who is and why?
If he hasnt been given enough money to challenge for the league, what's the excuse for struggling against Luton, Havant and losing to Barnsley?
Or are the players 'not good enough' to beat those sides (and finish 4th)?

From what i've seen posted, it strikes me that for some posters, it's never simply his fault, which seems odd. So i was curious and was hoping to get some stuff clarified.

Thanks.

[Reece]

Mods, please dont merge this or lock it, it's purely intended to ask the couple of questions at the end...

Ok, let's set the scene here. No abuse, no arsey-ness, just a genuine set of observations and then a few questions...

19 points off the top of the league.
Probable 20+ point defecit by the end of the season.
Struggle to finish 4th.
Struggle to knock Luton out of the cup.
Given a scare by part timers.
Dumped out at home by Barnsley.
No title challenge in four years.
Strange team selections.
Odd substitutions.
Bizarre systems.
Players playing out of position.
Persisting with flops.
Arguably boring football.

So, with the above in mind, a few questions...

Is it EVER Rafa's fault, or has ANYTHING been his fault? If so, what?
WILL anything ever be his fault?
At what point SHOULD he have to be made accountable for his actions?
Is there anything that could happen or any point that would make you think "Time for him to go" ? If so, what?
If he's not at fault, who is and why?
If he hasnt been given enough money to challenge for the league, what's the excuse for struggling against Luton, Havant and losing to Barnsley?
Or are the players 'not good enough' to beat those sides (and finish 4th)?

From what i've seen posted, it strikes me that for some posters, it's never simply his fault, which seems odd. So i was curious and was hoping to get some stuff clarified.

Thanks.

You (and many others on here) assume that anyone who supports Rafa and wants him to stay agrees with everything he does, and feels he never makes a mistake or gets anything wrong. It's quite frankly patronising and boring.

[Craig_H]

You (and many others on here) assume that anyone who supports Rafa and wants him to stay agrees with everything he does, and feels he never makes a mistake or gets anything wrong. It's quite frankly patronising and boring.

I can understand why it might be boring, but the same can be said of the umpteen different and imaginative excuses i read on here, almost weekly.

It's always down to something or someone else, from what i can see.

People seem to concur that some of his decisions are odd and wrong, yet despite that, still say it's not his fault. He's now making more wrong decisions than right ones, yet people still think he's the right man and that lacks correlation with logic, so i find it confusing.

Hence my curiosity.

[Rafa Shankly]

i honestly think there is huge troubles at our club which is affecting the team.

lets be honest,rafa could play any player in any position and really we should be beating barnsley.

i refuse to judge him until this season is over and the obvious troubles are sorted out one way or another.

[Craig_H]

i honestly think there is huge troubles at our club which is affecting the team.

lets be honest,rafa could play any player in any position and really we should be beating barnsley.

i refuse to judge him until this season is over and the obvious troubles are sorted out one way or another.

That's the key point, it's now gone beyond the fact that we're light years off a title challenge. We now cant even comfortably beat lower division sides at home (or even draw with them, where Barnsley are concerned).

Rafa MUST take his portion of the blame, but there are still some who dont seem like they'd attach ANY blame to him. It's staggering.

[Rafa Shankly]

That's the key point, it's now gone beyond the fact that we're light years off a title challenge. We now cant even comfortably beat lower division sides at home (or even draw with them, where Barnsley are concerned).

Rafa MUST take his portion of the blame, but there are still some who dont seem like they'd attach ANY blame to him. It's staggering.

hes the manager,of course he should.

but i dont think its staggering that some people do not attach any blame to him though,because i dont think anyone actually believes that.

i think the abuse gets so vicious towards rafa that some people(me included)get defensive.

as i said,im writing this season off because of what went on behind the scenes,ill hold off calling in the firing squad until rafa gets a full normal uninterrupted season.

[Craig_H]

hes the manager,of course he should.

but i dont think its staggering that some people do not attach any blame to him though,because i dont think anyone actually believes that.

i think the abuse gets so vicious towards rafa that some people(me included)get defensive.

as i said,im writing this season off because of what went on behind the scenes,ill hold off calling in the firing squad until rafa gets a full normal uninterrupted season.

There's no justification whatsoever for any abuse, it's bang out of order.

Whether we think he's doing a good job or not, he's only ever tried his best and any decision he makes, right or wrong, is made with the best of intentions. I have enormous fondness and respect for him and i wont forget that he gave us one of the best nights of my life in Istanbul.

No one can take that away from him and nor should they try.

[SRR]

Mods, please dont merge this or lock it, it's purely intended to ask the couple of questions at the end...

Ok, let's set the scene here. No abuse, no arsey-ness, just a genuine set of observations and then a few questions...

19 points off the top of the league.
Probable 20+ point defecit by the end of the season.
Struggle to finish 4th.
Struggle to knock Luton out of the cup.
Given a scare by part timers.
Dumped out at home by Barnsley.
No title challenge in four years.
Strange team selections.
Odd substitutions.
Bizarre systems.
Players playing out of position.
Persisting with flops.
Arguably boring football.

So, with the above in mind, a few questions...

Is it EVER Rafa's fault, or has ANYTHING been his fault? If so, what?
WILL anything ever be his fault?
At what point SHOULD he have to be made accountable for his actions?
Is there anything that could happen or any point that would make you think "Time for him to go" ? If so, what?
If he's not at fault, who is and why?
If he hasnt been given enough money to challenge for the league, what's the excuse for struggling against Luton, Havant and losing to Barnsley?
Or are the players 'not good enough' to beat those sides (and finish 4th)?

From what i've seen posted, it strikes me that for some posters, it's never simply his fault, which seems odd. So i was curious and was hoping to get some stuff clarified.

Thanks.

I suppose it is Rafa's fault that Crouch couldn't put the ball in the back of the net today.

I suppose it is Rafa's fault that Kuyt didn't put away all of his chances.

I suppose it is Rafa's fault that their keeper had the game of his life today.

Too many fans on here and other sites are quick to lay the blame squarely at Rafa's door everytime that we have a bad result/game when most of the time it is purely down to the lack of effort from the players on the pitch. I'm not saying that Rafa is perfect and yes he has made mistakes poor subsititues etc but then there are the occasions where he has got his tactics spot on but as usual they are forgotten because it is easier to blame than to compliment. I'm sorry but 9 times out of 10 the blame for our results should go the players. At the end of the day they are the ones on the pitch supposed to be giving 100% and doing the job not Rafa. Maybe you should remember back to the start of the season before the **** storm we are currently seeing started, undefeated, playing comfortably etc what was yours and the majority of the fans calling for his head thinking then.

You can dress it up all you want but too many players out there where the red shirt are not giving 100% including Gerrard and Carragher and as far as I am concerned that is the problem.

A question for you. Other than Torres how often has Rafa got his first choice targets in the transfer market?

[Craig_H]

I suppose it is Rafa's fault that Crouch couldn't put the ball in the back of the net today.

I suppose it is Rafa's fault that Kuyt didn't put away all of his chances.

I suppose it is Rafa's fault that their keeper had the game of his life today.

Too many fans on here and other sites are quick to lay the blame squarely at Rafa's door everytime that we have a bad result/game when most of the time it is purely down to the lack of effort from the players on the pitch. I'm not saying that Rafa is perfect and yes he has made mistakes poor subsititues etc but then there are the occasions where he has got his tactics spot on but as usual they are forgotten because it is easier to blame than to compliment. I'm sorry but 9 times out of 10 the blame for our results should go the players. At the end of the day they are the ones on the pitch supposed to be giving 100% and doing the job not Rafa. Maybe you should remember back to the start of the season before the **** storm we are currently seeing started, undefeated, playing comfortably etc what was yours and the majority of the fans calling for his head thinking then.

You can dress it up all you want but too many players out there where the red shirt are not giving 100% including Gerrard and Carragher and as far as I am concerned that is the problem.

A question for you. Other than Torres how often has Rafa got his first choice targets in the transfer market?

If we're going to turn to the players, then fair enough. I'll ask you this though...who buys them and who should be motivating them to GIVE 100%?

As for 'first choice targets', the rule there is simple. If you cant get the right player, dont go and buy the wrong player and assume it'll have the same impact.

As i've answered your question, here's one for you...

What IS rafa's fault?

[SRR]

hes the manager,of course he should.

but i dont think its staggering that some people do not attach any blame to him though,because i dont think anyone actually believes that.

i think the abuse gets so vicious towards rafa that some people(me included)get defensive.

as i said,im writing this season off because of what went on behind the scenes,ill hold off calling in the firing squad until rafa gets a full normal uninterrupted season.

Up until it kicked off behind the scenes we were doing nicely, but as usual people forget about that.

[Craig_H]

We stopped doing nicely after we beat derby mate. I dont think anything had really kicked off upstairs by then.

[Rafa Shankly]

There's no justification whatsoever for any abuse, it's bang out of order.

Whether we think he's doing a good job or not, he's only ever tried his best and any decision he makes, right or wrong, is made with the best of intentions. I have enormous fondness and respect for him and i wont forget that he gave us one of the best nights of my life in Istanbul.

No one can take that away from him and nor should they try.

he has given us much more than that night mate,this season excluded he has turned us into contenders.

[Craig_H]

he has given us much more than that night mate,this season excluded he has turned us into contenders.

Hmm, well contenders...possibly.

I'm not sure we've genuinely contended for the title, but yes, i did think we WERE 'contenders' a few months ago.

[Rafa Shankly]

We stopped doing nicely after we beat derby mate. I dont think anything had really kicked off upstairs by then.

it started after athens mate,to what extent we dont know.

[Ron_Mexico]

If we're going to turn to the players, then fair enough. I'll ask you this though...who buys them and who should be motivating them to GIVE 100%?

They're professionals on stupid money, they shouldn't need motivating