For those that WANT Rafa gone.

[Harv]

So you DONT think we're better than City, Villa and Spurs then?

Right-o...

once again you twist the words to suit your argument, and fail to realise the point im making.

Where did i say we arn't better than City and Villa?

I stated that they would be hot on our heels....which they are.

[Craig_H]

once again you twist the words to suit your argument, and fail to realise the point im making.

Where did i say we arn't better than City and Villa?

I stated that they would be hot on our heels....which they are.

Ok, let me put it another way.

Do you think we're comfortably better than them?

If so, they shouldnt be close to us.

If not...we WERE when rafa took over, so £150m later, why arent we?

[Johnny]

Some people think we have a devine right to finish in the Top 4.Occasionally we`ll have a bad season and teams like Villa/ManC will challenge us if they have enough money or good managers.

[Johnny]

If so, they shouldnt be close to us.

Why shouldn`t they?

[Craig_H]

Some people think we have a devine right to finish in the Top 4.Occasionally we`ll have a bad season and teams like Villa/ManC will challenge us if they have enough money or good managers.

No we dont have a divine right, but we do have comfortably better players and a better team. So we should indeed finish above them.

[MascheredUp]

Ok, let me put it another way.

Do you think we're comfortably better than them?

If so, they shouldnt be close to us.

If not...we WERE when rafa took over, so £150m later, why arent we?

Completely agree with you.

The truth is we are not better than them and our squad was arguably much better than our squad from last season as we all thought.

[fah-q]

Ok, im playing devils advocate here. But Sven has spent a lot of money and completely transformed a side that couldn't score at home last season to being within touching distance of the CL places. Does this mean he is a better manager than Rafa?

[Craig_H]

Why shouldn`t they?

I said, 'if so' - so if we ARE indeed comfortably better than them, of course they shouldnt finish close to us - unless of course we're hugely underachieving...oh, what's that noise?

*ding ding ding ding ding ding*

It's the underachievment alarm

[Red Chilli]

Some people think we have a devine right to finish in the Top 4.Occasionally we`ll have a bad season and teams like Villa/ManC will challenge us if they have enough money or good managers.

Problem is Johnny, for some it's a straight forward equation, unless we spend more than our rivals all the time, we can't compete and the manager gets a free ride.
Well, if you want it that way, then we should constantly finish above Villa, Everton Citeh etc.

Basically, what I'm saying is you have to be consistent with your point of view. If it's all about money then we have a divine right to finish in the top 4. If it's not all about money, then our manager is failing by under-achieving in the league

[Craig_H]

Completely agree with you.

The truth is we are not better than them and our squad was arguably much better than our squad from last season as we all thought.

I think we ARE better than them, but the problem is that they have managers who ARE getting the best out of them and consequently, they're over achieving. Our manager isnt getting the best out of us, so we're underachieving.

Put the two scenarios together, and you have what we have now - an embarrassingly unnecessary SCRAP for 4th place...

[Craig_H]

Problem is Johnny, for some it's a straight forward equation, unless we spend more than our rivals all the time, we can't compete and the manager gets a free ride.
Well, if you want it that way, then we should constantly finish above Villa, Everton Citeh etc.

Basically, what I'm saying is you have to be consistent with your point of view. If it's all about money then we have a divine right to finish in the top 4. If it's not all about money, then our manager is failing by under-achieving in the league

[Red Chilli]

Ok, im playing devils advocate here. But Sven has spent a lot of money and completely transformed a side that couldn't score at home last season to being within touching distance of the CL places. Does this mean he is a better manager than Rafa?

His style of management is more suited to the premier league, doesn't mean he's a better manager, although he could well be.

[Johnny]

No we dont have a divine right, but we do have comfortably better players and a better team. So we should indeed finish above them.

Maybe we think we have a better team.

[Craig_H]

Maybe we think we have a better team.

Now you're just being silly.

For everton, 4th is the pinnacle of what they can achieve. They're delighted with it. Same with Villa and City.

For us, 4th is the minimum. We're barely content with it.

If we dont have a better team, how do you explain the above?

[Red Chilli]

Maybe we think we have a better team.

We have a better squad, but not necessarily a better team.
We have a better calibre of player, but not necessarily a better team.

A good team performs to a higher level than the sum of it's component parts, like Everton. We don't

Both teams playing to their potential, there's no comparrison IMO