4-2-3-1

[Guest]

Towers of Babel ?

[dww]

I think NY is referring to Raul Castro

:viva:

I can't help feeling that he is the Jack to Fidel's Bobby in the comparative brotherly greatness stakes.

[Neil Young]

I can't help feeling that he is the Jack to Fidel's Bobby in the comparative brotherly greatness stakes.

Are we talking Charltons or Kennedys?

[Rich]

How many great Fidel's have played soccerball?

How many great Raul's have played soccerball?

I rest my case

[dww]

Are we talking Charltons or Kennedys?

I was going for the former. I see now that the case is less that clear cut and that stereotyping by name may prove an untenable method for future assessments.

[CAD]

So if we got a good winger or two we could do without 2 strikers?



I think it's all a bit of a misnomer really. Because Gerrard was seen as a central midfielder when he plays as one of the 3 in a 4-2-3-1 he's still an attacking midfielder. Yet when Bergkamp played there or Rooney (or Kuyt) plays there, he's a support or second striker.

Similarly when Giggs plays on the left of a 3 he's a winger, etc. ad nauseam.

If we had wingers like Nani and Ronaldo and Giggs things would be very different, yes

[CAD]

----------------------Reina----------------------

-----------Arbeloa-------------Insua-------------

------Mascherano---Carragher-----Agger---------

Kuyt------Gerrard----Towers-----Babel-----Castro

I would switch Agger with Insua

[TartanTerror]

Four defenders...two of whom offer an attacking threat during general play.

Two central midfielders.

Four attackers.

Hang on, that's 4-2-4.

That seems to be a significant departure from his usual away tactics. Has he not traditionally sent out more of a 4-4-1-1? Frequently we have lamented the lack of bodies in the box, as it would seem we only had the 2 strikers (one of which was deep lying) and the lone midfielder who was bringing the ball down the wing. With this arrangement the MFer frequently only had a single target in the box as the other striker was level with or slightly trailing the play. So maybe this shift to four attackers denoted a radical departure in Rafa-think?

[Redspin]

The "new" system has been talked about recently, I wonder how much does Rafa need to change in terms of playing personel to get the most out of this system. I have recently found myself defending Kuyt, I think he suits the system well as long as he is playing alongside Torres and/or Babel, so there will be some pace in the attack.

Today the strongest lineup would be I think:

Reina

Finnan
Carra
Agger
Aurelio

Mascher
Alonso

Babel
Gerrard
Kuyt

Torres

I think we have both central defence and central midfield covered but I reckon our first priority this summer should be a full back (right one with pace), a winger who can offer a decent goal threat and a good striker.

Don't think we need to add much more to the squad this summer if it means we could spend big in those positions.

Hardly a new system though, as it's the one he used all the time at Valencia and has tried before numerous times with Liverpool
(usually to be greeted by moronic complaints about only playing one up front). If we'd had the quality wide players he'd have used it all the time.

[kris90210]

I like the formation on paper - watching us against Bolton Torres didnt get much of a sniff. I think in reality our best bet would be a 4-4-2 built around the following:

-----------------Reina------------------
Finnan----Carragher-----Agger----????--
--------Gerrard------Mascherano--------
--???---------------------------???-----
------------???--------Torres-----------

So I make that 4 first team players we would need. A winger and a creative foil for Torres would be the priority.

[dww]

That seems to be a significant departure from his usual away tactics. Has he not traditionally sent out more of a 4-4-1-1? Frequently we have lamented the lack of bodies in the box, as it would seem we only had the 2 strikers (one of which was deep lying) and the lone midfielder who was bringing the ball down the wing. With this arrangement the MFer frequently only had a single target in the box as the other striker was level with or slightly trailing the play. So maybe this shift to four attackers denoted a radical departure in Rafa-think?

My point (which I think NY was agreeing with in his own way) was more about the fact that basically all of the top teams whether the nominal formation is 4-4-2, 4-4-1-1, 4-3-3, 4-5-1 or whatever have four players chosen to provide offensive capabilities to the team. The variance being whether you have split strikers, attacking, midfielders and wingers but that these roles in the best teams are becoming increasingly blurred with flexibility being the keyword in attack. This has been a feature of our recent games with Kuyt, Babel and Gerrard playing with Torres.

[cled the red]

I like the formation on paper - watching us against Bolton Torres didnt get much of a sniff. I think in reality our best bet would be a 4-4-2 built around the following:

-----------------Reina------------------
Finnan----Carragher-----Agger----????--
--------Gerrard------Mascherano--------
--???---------------------------???-----
------------???--------Torres-----------

So I make that 4 first team players we would need. A winger and a creative foil for Torres would be the priority.

4-2-3-1 formation against Boro - Torres scores 3!!!

[friedk]

---------------------Reina
Rafinha-------Skrtel----------Agger-------Insua
----------Masch-----------Lucas--------------
-----Gerrard---------Diego-------Babel---------
---------------------Torres--------------------

Rafinha and Diego as the new players. Just shows that we are not that far from having a complete starting XI.

Don't see Gerrard as being effective in that position, a free role starting in front of the two central midfielders is far more suitable for him.

This system is actually tailor made for Luis Garcia

Gerrard in the middle, with C Ronaldo on the right

[friedk]

Why?

Man United seem to play pretty well with no "out-and-out" strikers.

but they have Ronaldo scoring more than a goal a game, at the moment he is freakishly good, imho the best player in the world, when you have that you don't need much else.

I still can't stand him by the way, but any lover of football has to appreciate the way he has been playing this season.

[Harv]

I actually think gerrard would do well on the right of this formation.

He would get lots of space out wide, and he is one of the best crossers in our side.

Whether he would like playing in the position is another matter