Re: Rafa Post Match statement - Shock

[Darkon]

Political maneuverings aplenty and the press living on guesses here and there.

There are suprisingly few quotes in recent articles, except from what Rafa said in the post match...

The press doing what it is best at...

[spud_gun]

The Future is bright the future is Hicks and Rafa

[carlton]

I dont see why the owners should have a problem with rafa wanting control over football matters-thats what started this whole mess. if rafa can sort transfers than parry can go back to doing whatever it is he does. cant see them giving rafa a blank cheque book either but another round of spending like the last one would be ok. players might be a bit more expensive this year cos arsenal will be a player unlike last year you'd think?

What a God awful mess our great club is in off the field.GG should stop rooting around and sell to DIC if thats what he's planning to do and if things have to go to court so be it, surely that would be better than waiting for the Hicks empire to crumble financially. Cant see Rafa staying unless he gets his way with football matters

[dww]

I dont see why the owners should have a problem with rafa wanting control over football matters-thats what started this whole mess. if rafa can sort transfers than parry can go back to doing whatever it is he does. cant see them giving rafa a blank cheque book either but another round of spending like the last one would be ok. players might be a bit more expensive this year cos arsenal will be a player unlike last year you'd think?

What a God awful mess our great club is in off the field.GG should stop rooting around and sell to DIC if thats what he's planning to do and if things have to go to court so be it, surely that would be better than waiting for the Hicks empire to crumble financially. Cant see Rafa staying unless he gets his way with football matters

I think that the thing about Rafa having control over transfers in interesting. My take would be that the club needs to know that a financial expert is involved in the deal making process, Rafa is not that although previous reports indicate he is a better negotiator than Parry. If we accept Rafa should have a big input but needs someone alongside him then he has to trust that person. It has been clear for a while that his relationship with Paryy is an uneasy one at best.

The question of whether Arsenal will be a transfer force is another interesting one. I think they will probably only buy one established player and as such won't be a huge problem at that end of the market but Wenger might bolster his options with some more high value prospects which might put a squeeze on our ability to secure players like Lucas this year. That probably suits us fine as we mostly need to deal with improving the first XI rather than too much squad tinkering.

[AFII]

I dont see why the owners should have a problem with rafa wanting control over football matters-thats what started this whole mess. if rafa can sort transfers than parry can go back to doing whatever it is he does. cant see them giving rafa a blank cheque book either but another round of spending like the last one would be ok. players might be a bit more expensive this year cos arsenal will be a player unlike last year you'd think?

What a God awful mess our great club is in off the field.GG should stop rooting around and sell to DIC if thats what he's planning to do and if things have to go to court so be it, surely that would be better than waiting for the Hicks empire to crumble financially. Cant see Rafa staying unless he gets his way with football matters

The problem is that Hicks want to do it with more loans against the club so I'm fully behind Parry and Gillett not supporting that even if it means that Rafa leaves.

[Guest]

I think that the thing about Rafa having control over transfers in interesting. My take would be that the club needs to know that a financial expert is involved in the deal making process, Rafa is not that although previous reports indicate he is a better negotiator than Parry. If we accept Rafa should have a big input but needs someone alongside him then he has to trust that person. It has been clear for a while that his relationship with Paryy is an uneasy one at best.

The question of whether Arsenal will be a transfer force is another interesting one. I think they will probably only buy one established player and as such won't be a huge problem at that end of the market but Wenger might bolster his options with some more high value prospects which might put a squeeze on our ability to secure players like Lucas this year. That probably suits us fine as we mostly need to deal with improving the first XI rather than too much squad tinkering.

I don't think we need that Dave. It's another kettle of fish buying football players as the price is most of the time dictated by the market and about what a club will pay. Rafa has been good at it on past history. Look at the Torres deal. We got him for cheaper than what other clubs were prepared to pay for him.

And a financial expert will only slow down the process, when time plays a big factor in such situations.

[dww]

I don't think we need that Dave. It's another kettle of fish buying football players as the price is most of the time dictated by the market and about what a club will pay. Rafa has been good at it on past history. Look at the Torres deal. We got him for cheaper than what other clubs were prepared to pay for him.

And a financial expert will only slow down the process, when time plays a big factor in such situations.

But the fact is that transfer fees are not paid in one lump sum they have any number of ways of payment and the method can have a big effect on the real value of the transfer. I guess mere financial knowledge is also not enough an idea of transfer law is also key.

I would say that Parry was involved in the Torres deal and while the deal seemed to take ages that is the reality with most transfers I would suspect. Obviously we have to be able to close deals in tight time frames at some points but I would argue that a financial expert who Rafa trusted implicitly in the way sat Wenger did David Dein would in fact speed up the process and improve the value of deals.

[homer1]

But the fact is that transfer fees are not paid in one lump sum they have any number of ways of payment and the method can have a big effect on the real value of the transfer. I guess mere financial knowledge is also not enough an idea of transfer law is also key.

I would say that Parry was involved in the Torres deal and while the deal seemed to take ages that is the reality with most transfers I would suspect. Obviously we have to be able to close deals in tight time frames at some points but I would argue that a financial expert who Rafa trusted implicitly in the way sat Wenger did David Dein would in fact speed up the process and improve the value of deals.

I think that's spot on. I think Rafa is cute regarding player values etc but I would have no problem having him work closely alongside a "money man". Your example of Wenger & Dein is a perfect example, as seems to be the relationship betwen Ferguson & Gill at Utd - both seem to be able to identify a target and be confident they will be secured .......... appreciate having more funds available always helps but I think there has to be a tight bond between manager and CEO and that is something we haven't had for a while

[blacky]

The problem is that Hicks want to do it with more loans against the club so I'm fully behind Parry and Gillett not supporting that even if it means that Rafa leaves.

It's a lose lose situation then isn't it? I don't want any of hicks, parry or gillette at the club but mostly I don't want to lose Rafa. If he leaves we are back to square one and a new manager with new ideas would arrive and we would be rebuilding all over again. Rafa is a one in a million manager and we need to keep him. I hope gillette realises this and agrees to sacking parry. The key is who replaces him on the board, it can't be a "yes" man to hicks or gillette it needs to be somone like moores who has the club at heart.

[AFII]

It's a lose lose situation then isn't it? I don't want any of hicks, parry or gillette at the club but mostly I don't want to lose Rafa. If he leaves we are back to square one and a new manager with new ideas would arrive and we would be rebuilding all over again. Rafa is a one in a million manager and we need to keep him. I hope gillette realises this and agrees to sacking parry. The key is who replaces him on the board, it can't be a "yes" man to hicks or gillette it needs to be somone like moores who has the club at heart.

The key is as you say that if Parry leaves then it must be a neutral new CEO. Right now Parry is more important than Rafa because Ayre would replace him and he is in the Hicks camp.

[Guest]

But the fact is that transfer fees are not paid in one lump sum they have any number of ways of payment and the method can have a big effect on the real value of the transfer. I guess mere financial knowledge is also not enough an idea of transfer law is also key.

I would say that Parry was involved in the Torres deal and while the deal seemed to take ages that is the reality with most transfers I would suspect. Obviously we have to be able to close deals in tight time frames at some points but I would argue that a financial expert who Rafa trusted implicitly in the way sat Wenger did David Dein would in fact speed up the process and improve the value of deals.

Well Parry is a chartered accountant so should roughly know how to effect such deals anyway. In terms of multiple payments involved in such deals, that could be a straightforward issue as soon as the deal is 'tied up' between the player and the club and the buying club -> selling club. These issues are just paperwork and doesn't affect the transfer as such if there's a legal document assuring that the deal is closed pending confirmation of loose ends.

[el matador]

I don't think we need that Dave. It's another kettle of fish buying football players as the price is most of the time dictated by the market and about what a club will pay. Rafa has been good at it on past history. Look at the Torres deal. We got him for cheaper than what other clubs were prepared to pay for him.

And a financial expert will only slow down the process, when time plays a big factor in such situations.

I think we do fredo.

If you look at some of our transfer dealings over the past 10 years we have vastly overpaid for some of our transfers.

Cisse, peter crouch, jermaine pennant, dirk kuyt - some of these players were signed above their true value (at the time of the purchase) and that's down to poor negotiations on our part.

We need a shark of a negotiator, look at people like Del nido of sevilla or jean michel aulas of lyon, the president of benfica also springs to mind. These guys are proper deal makers who always get the best deal for their clubs.

I know the buying club is always at a disadvantage unless there are other circumstances involved but we have always overpaid for players. The Torres deal was an exception to the rule but it could be argued that he didnt have a brilliant last season in spain and needed to move on.

A decent CEO and transfer dealer would save us millions and give rafa the ammunition that he needs. Rick Parry clearly isnt that.

[Guest]

I think we do fredo.

If you look at some of our transfer dealings over the past 10 years we have vastly overpaid for some of our transfers.

Cisse, peter crouch, jermaine pennant, dirk kuyt - some of these players were signed above their true value (at the time of the purchase) and that's down to poor negotiations on our part.

We need a shark of a negotiator, look at people like Del nido of sevilla or jean michel aulas of lyon, the president of benfica also springs to mind. These guys are proper deal makers who always get the best deal for their clubs.

I know the buying club is always at a disadvantage unless there are other circumstances involved but we have always overpaid for players. The Torres deal was an exception to the rule but it could be argued that he didnt have a brilliant last season in spain and needed to move on.

A decent CEO and transfer dealer would save us millions and give rafa the ammunition that he needs. Rick Parry clearly isnt that.

Hmmm ... I don't agree mate. For example Cisse, he was supposed to be a huge potential talent at the time we bought him and probably another club would have bought him for that same price. It's the ability not to spot real potential which undid us, not how much we played over the odds for 'not so great' players. There's a clear difference there.

As for Crouch, for £7m pounds, we're reported to be having offers of > £10m for him. Hardly paying over the odds is it ??

[el matador]

Hmmm ... I don't agree mate. For example Cisse, he was supposed to be a huge potential talent at the time we bought him and probably another club would have bought him for that same price. It's the ability not to spot real potential which undid us, not how much we played over the odds for 'not so great' players. There's a clear difference there.

As for Crouch, for £7m pounds, we're reported to be having offers of > £10m for him. Hardly paying over the odds is it ??

At the time when crouchy was purchased nobody said he was worth £7m. Same applies to pennant and kuyt who a lot of pundits at the time said was overpriced at £9.5m

With Cisse, I agree that he was supposed to be the next big thing but i think he was coming towards the end of his contract (i think he had less than 18months to go) and £14m is absolutely ridiculous for someone unproven at the top end (going back 4 or 5 years).

[Guest]

At the time when crouchy was purchased nobody said he was worth £7m. Same applies to pennant and kuyt who a lot of pundits at the time said was overpriced at £9.5m

With Cisse, I agree that he was supposed to be the next big thing but i think he was coming towards the end of his contract (i think he had less than 18months to go) and £14m is absolutely ridiculous for someone unproven at the top end (going back 4 or 5 years).

If you can give a rational analysis, I can't see how a financial expert would offer more mate. It's just common sense in the end anyway, and a certain talent for spotting true value.

Coming back to Crouch, Pennant & Kuyt, well Crouchie was under priced based on what he did for us. Credit to Rafa. As for Pennant & Dirk, I'm sure both of them won't be hard to sell at roughly the same price. Pennant is still young at 25 and still can progress and he surely has shown his price tag, not much more I agree, but not less certainly too. As for Kuyt, he's in the first team atm, so I can say that he's been a very good buy at the price we bought him.