Mentality

[El Jefecito]

Seems to me this is the biggest reason why we struggle to last the course in the EPL. We obviously have better players than most but somehow we still seem to slip up against the more average teams. Anyone who watched liverpool in the 70's, 80's and early 90's, knows that we had that winning mentality. Souness referred to it as teams being afraid to play Liverpool as they were a team of men. Pako also mentioned that we would not win the EPL this year as our mentality was not there yet.

How do we change this? Do we need a Souness type hard-man/inspirational leader? Do we need an experienced head a la McAllister? Can Rafa just brow beat the existing team into a winning mentality for each game?

Am I on the wrong track? Is something else wrong? Is there another way to get the mentality we need?

[Joe King]

Quality in the first team and consistent results against the big sides. We have some sort of inferior complexity against them especially the Scum.

[dww]

I would like to see an experienced attacking player come in. I think a large part of what we lack is someone who gives us the confidence that we could score. All our attacking players tend to come deep too often in tough games and we have no outlet.

[G]

I would like to see an experienced attacking player come in. I think a large part of what we lack is someone who gives us the confidence that we could score. All our attacking players tend to come deep too often in tough games and we have no outlet.

Probably because they are told to cos we have all defend as a team,particularly against the others in the big 4.Even Torres back in the box for corners in the semi first leg.Surely no harm to leave him up front.

[JPK]

We just dont have enough quality players.

[mersey86]

Quality in the first team and consistent results against the big sides. We have some sort of inferior complexity against them especially the Scum.

I'm not sure we do. As for United, even when we were winning the league year after year we didn't generally do well against them. Our strength was that we'd win all the easier games. United raised their game when they played us. I don't like talk of raising your game against the big teams - it suggests you are not giving your best in other games.

We just dont have enough quality players.

I don't agree.

[Vermilion]

We just dont have enough quality players.

Spot on.

[dww]

Probably because they are told to cos we have all defend as a team,particularly against the others in the big 4.Even Torres back in the box for corners in the semi first leg.Surely no harm to leave him up front.

I don't think the corners thing is the problem people make it out to be - United do it frequently too. The difference is the way they break from deep. I really think that the instructions is to defend as a team but that this means to defend aggressively and push the opposition back not to always come deep and more importantly when we have the ball attacking options like Gerrard need to be in positions to receive it and hurt the opposition. All too often Gerrard (and on occasion Kuyt) have gone hunting the ball rather than looking to give options to others. In part I think it is a lack of faith in other players ability and that needs to be eradicated from the team or we will not progress.

I think the art of knowing when to allow people to take a chance themselves is one some of our players find hard. An older head might teach them what the difference is in psychology that makes Man United players able to trust Wes Brown or Fletcher for example when they play.

I have a very firm idea of what I mean but I'm not sure I am communicating it very well.

[Norbs]

Seems to me this is the biggest reason why we struggle to last the course in the EPL. We obviously have better players than most but somehow we still seem to slip up against the more average teams. Anyone who watched liverpool in the 70's, 80's and early 90's, knows that we had that winning mentality. Souness referred to it as teams being afraid to play Liverpool as they were a team of men. Pako also mentioned that we would not win the EPL this year as our mentality was not there yet.

How do we change this? Do we need a Souness type hard-man/inspirational leader? Do we need an experienced head a la McAllister? Can Rafa just brow beat the existing team into a winning mentality for each game?

Am I on the wrong track? Is something else wrong? Is there another way to get the mentality we need?

I agree, with the squad we've now assembled, it can't be anything other than that. We've got winners in our squad, individuals who can turn games and leaders but as a whole it's not quite clicking.

Torres and Babel are prem winning quality players, we've a dealth of talent that is good enough to win the premiership and with perhaps a world class left back we're all but there. Next season we'll know what to expect from Torres, his goals will inspire the rest of the team and I think we'll be much closer. Rafa simply must start taking points off the top 3 teams though (this season's top three that is) or we're always looking at being 9-15 points adrift.

[Norbs]

We just dont have enough quality players.

Yeah we do.

Torres
Gerrard
Alonso
Agger
Reina
Mascherano
Babel
Carragher

That's an 8 player core which could win the premiership. Our strength is evenly distributed around the field now too, we dont just have a 'good defensive unit' or 'a great centre midfield partnership'. Add to that list the full backs Arbeloa and Aurelio plus Kuyt and you're got a decent team. It's the squad behind that lot which is important though, the likes of Skrtel, Hyypia, Riise, Crouch and Lucas sitting on the sides waiting for a chance.

I think we're fine, just a little tweak in the close season

[Red Chilli]

Squad's not good enough and we're too inconsistent

[JohnDoe]

Yeah we do.

Torres
Gerrard
Alonso
Agger
Reina
Mascherano
Babel
Carragher

That's an 8 player core which could win the premiership. Our strength is evenly distributed around the field now too, we dont just have a 'good defensive unit' or 'a great centre midfield partnership'. Add to that list the full backs Arbeloa and Aurelio plus Kuyt and you're got a decent team. It's the squad behind that lot which is important though, the likes of Skrtel, Hyypia, Riise, Crouch and Lucas sitting on the sides waiting for a chance.

I think we're fine, just a little tweak in the close season

Just two match winners on that list though.

[JPK]

Yeah we do.

Torres
Gerrard
Alonso
Agger
Reina
Mascherano
Babel
Carragher

That's an 8 player core which could win the premiership. Our strength is evenly distributed around the field now too, we dont just have a 'good defensive unit' or 'a great centre midfield partnership'. Add to that list the full backs Arbeloa and Aurelio plus Kuyt and you're got a decent team. It's the squad behind that lot which is important though, the likes of Skrtel, Hyypia, Riise, Crouch and Lucas sitting on the sides waiting for a chance.

I think we're fine, just a little tweak in the close season

We dont have enough goals coming from the wide areas. In the past few years Ronaldo,Joe Cole,Duff,Robben,Pires and Ljungberg have all chipped in with the goals. We dont have any wide players doing that so I will stick by what I said. Gerrard and Torres are our only real top quality attackers. Babel is raw but will get there.

[tsb]

Which of the other top prem clubs have a Souness type nowadays?

[Joe King]

Keegan?

EDIT: I thought you meant manager

Souness type player- Essien but he doesn't score as much goals.