Are we really paupers?

[EST_1892]

The thread is about the myth that we don't spend money under Rafa.

Compared to Man Yoo and Chavs, we don't spend half the amount that they do. FFS, we broke our transfer record on Djibs at 14M only after the Mancs had spent 28M on Rio, 27M on Veron and 30M on Rooney.

I can't really be arsed going into all this transfer net/gross spend thing. The one signing we splashed out on was Torres and look at the difference he has made. If we want to make another difference, we need to splash the same amount of cash for another position.

I hear every Liverpool fan say the same thing day in day out every transfer period. Year after year. Rocket science it is not!

[wishiwasascouser]

You can tell the football seasons over - out come the calculators and endless lists comparing who we bought, who we sold, and then comparing it to the other big three clubs.

[-V-]

Ferdinand 28m
Vidic 7m
Evra 5.5m
Hargreaves 18m
Carrick 18m
Nani 15m
Silvestre 6m
Anderson 17m
Ronaldo 12m
Rooney 30m
Tevez 25m (not concluded yet ofcourse)
Saha 10m

Add to that the big money they have spent on other players that have come and gone and the talent they already have in Giggs, Scholes etc etc and its no wonder why we have been struggling to compete Rashid

Dont even get me started on Chelsea because they are a whole lot worse. The fact is Rashid, every season they keep adding big money players and you see why Rafa's job is so hard. Getting close to them is damn near impossible but thank **** we have Rafa Benitez and he gives us hope. If it wasn't for Rafa i could damn well guarantee you that we would be much worse off at the moment so stop moaning and bitching and support him

[Rafa Shankly]

Just like manure.

i heard man u are are bottling fergies farts to sell em,maybe we should do that.

man u may be winning,that certainly doesnt mean the way they do business is the best way of doing things.

but saying that,will we spend as much this summer?

[EST_1892]

You can tell the football seasons over - out come the calculators and endless lists comparing who we bought, who we sold, and then comparing it to the other big three clubs.

You can't be referring to me because they are figures well known and off the top of my head. No calculator was harmed in making that small financial assumption!

[vonk]

This made my blood boil - from The Times:

"Pressed on the matter of overhauling Liverpool's record of 18 domestic league titles - United will match that feat if they win the Premier League again next season - Ferguson was almost dismissive. He has long maintained that knocking Liverpool off their “f***ing perch” was one of his greatest achievements and having won ten league titles to their two, and lifted two European Cups to their one, during his tenure at Old Trafford, the United manager feels that he has nothing to prove on that front.

“I don't concern myself with that because this team will do it [beat Liverpool's record], they will win more titles over the years, I'm sure of that,” he said. “I did my job of getting rid of Liverpool many years ago from that top position. I did that job. I don't need to worry about league titles.”

----- I hope Rafa and the entire club see this. They are STILL behind us in terms of European Cups and League but we must stop this happening. We need investment bigger than we have been given and we need to win the league while whiskey-nose is still in charge!!

[wishiwasascouser]

You can't be referring to me because they are figures well known and off the top of my head. No calculator was harmed in making that small financial assumption!

I just meant in general really,on all forums it happens, some posts more in depth than others!

[Zambian_Red]

To answer a few points.

1. Rafa "prefers" to buy 6 players at £30m as opposed to 2 at £15m each.
2. Insua was bought last summer.
3. It might be borrowed money but Rafa still spent it, we still got the players.
4. The Mancs and Arsenal have spent less than us since Rafa has come here both Gross and NET.
5. We finished 2 point behind the Mancs 2 years ago and spent more since then only for them to pull away.

What the Fuk are you talking about that rafa has outspent the scums. Can someone please ban this tw@t no wonder he is disliked at every Liverpool forum

[EST_1892]

I just meant in general really,on all forums it happens, some posts more in depth than others!

I know what you mean. I just move on when I see one (net/gross thread), but if I had to put a pound on it, I would say the scum have out spent us in the last 10 years...No?

[Johnny]

ManU will be ****ed when the Glaziers have to pay back the loans,they`ll be sold again then.

[Kronenburg1892]

This made my blood boil - from The Times:

"Pressed on the matter of overhauling Liverpool's record of 18 domestic league titles - United will match that feat if they win the Premier League again next season - Ferguson was almost dismissive. He has long maintained that knocking Liverpool off their “f***ing perch” was one of his greatest achievements and having won ten league titles to their two, and lifted two European Cups to their one, during his tenure at Old Trafford, the United manager feels that he has nothing to prove on that front.

“I don't concern myself with that because this team will do it [beat Liverpool's record], they will win more titles over the years, I'm sure of that,” he said. “I did my job of getting rid of Liverpool many years ago from that top position. I did that job. I don't need to worry about league titles.”

We just need to beat them home and away. 12 pointer.

[friedk]

We finished 1 point behind the Mancs 2 years ago and spent more since then only for them to pull away and us to be further behind.

Rafa has spent more NET and GROSS than Fergie and Wenger these past 4 years. He inherited a 4th place team, where did we finish after all this money has been spent? 4th.

Rashid if you can't see that we are a better side than the one Rafa took over then you clearly do not have the slightest clue about football. The only thing keeping us even close to 4th place were Owen's goals, something we lost just before the close of Rafa's first transfer window.

If you look at the starting positions from when Rafa took over, we were 100's of millions of pounds behind Manchester and Arsenal. We were also well behind Chelsea and they did spend 100's of millions to bridge the gap.

As for the example of Arsenal, when Rafa arrived they had gone the entire season unbeaten, since then we have outperformed them 2 out 4 seasons in the league and been more successful in cup competitions. So perhaps if Wenger had spent a bit more they would have been more successful no

United on the other hand have been consistently the best team in the league since 1993, so to even compare Rafa's spending to Ferguson's in ludicrous.

Over the past 3 seasons we are averaging 2 points per game, something we haven't managed consistently since the 80's.

Then again why don't we just sack Rafa and let somebody else overhaul the squad

[blacky]

Just had a nice Indian mate, as ever it was great!

The thread is about the myth that we don't spend money under Rafa.

I think we all agree we spend money Rash it's mainly been on rebuilding though. I think last summer showed a shift in Rafa's policy when he brought in Torres, this was followed by 18m on Masch and I fully expect another 15-20 million pound to be spent on an attacking player this summer. We have the bulk of the squad in place now it is just a case of fitting the final pieces.

[dww]

The thing is that all of these figures are subject to huge error bars and the fact that they completely ignore wages, sign on fees, agents cuts etc. But for the sake of argument lets assume they are correct.

We then have to look at what has been achieved with that money and from what base level that happened. When Rafa took over we had a side that was nowhere near good enough to challenge and most of the players looked to have peaked already in their careers whatever their age (for example Heskey should theoretically have been reaching his prime years but we all know that we had seen as good as it was going to get from him). The squad also didn't suit the way Rafa wanted to play and the youth/reserve setup contained no players that were going to make the step up and a number of older players. IIRC we also had the second highest wages/turnover percentage in the league.

Rafa has spent money improving not only the first team but also the infrastructure of the club and from what I understand had to do that while asked to reduce the wage burden on the club (at least at first). We had to create a platform for the future that both United and Arsenal already had in place. The fact that he has had one summer in which he has been able to compete genuinely for his top targets seems a slightly harsh stick to beat him with.

In terms of the accusation that Rafa likes to spend money on lots of players rather than one or two top players - I think that it is a gross simplification. I think Rafa likes to have a pool of players a certain size. Since he has come here he has had to try and make that pool of the correct quality and the fact he has had restrictions on money to spend and wages as well as a lack of young players he felt good enough to draw on has made him have to gamble on a number of signings. I would think that if given two or three seasons of sustained (and importantly predictable) investment in the team he would be able to change that pattern. I don't see how one can make the statement that he prefers to buy many players without considering the context in which he took the actions he has.

Last summer he showed that if he though the squad would benefit most from putting a lot of our eggs in a smaller number of baskets with the likes of Torres and Mascher then he would do that.

[Angry Dan]

The thing is that all of these figures are subject to huge error bars and the fact that they completely ignore wages, sign on fees, agents cuts etc. But for the sake of argument lets assume they are correct.

We then have to look at what has been achieved with that money and from what base level that happened. When Rafa took over we had a side that was nowhere near good enough to challenge and most of the players looked to have peaked already in their careers whatever their age (for example Heskey should theoretically have been reaching his prime years but we all know that we had seen as good as it was going to get from him). The squad also didn't suit the way Rafa wanted to play and the youth/reserve setup contained no players that were going to make the step up and a number of older players. IIRC we also had the second highest wages/turnover percentage in the league.

Rafa has spent money improving not only the first team but also the infrastructure of the club and from what I understand had to do that while asked to reduce the wage burden on the club (at least at first). We had to create a platform for the future that both United and Arsenal already had in place. The fact that he has had one summer in which he has been able to compete genuinely for his top targets seems a slightly harsh stick to beat him with.

In terms of the accusation that Rafa likes to spend money on lots of players rather than one or two top players - I think that it is a gross simplification. I think Rafa likes to have a pool of players a certain size. Since he has come here he has had to try and make that pool of the correct quality and the fact he has had restrictions on money to spend and wages as well as a lack of young players he felt good enough to draw on has made him have to gamble on a number of signings. I would think that if given two or three seasons of sustained (and importantly predictable) investment in the team he would be able to change that pattern. I don't see how one can make the statement that he prefers to buy many players without considering the context in which he took the actions he has.

Last summer he showed that if he though the squad would benefit most from putting a lot of our eggs in a smaller number of baskets with the likes of Torres and Mascher then he would do that.

My thoughts exactly, but in a more coherent correctly spelled manner