In the hole?

[Robbie-9-Fowler]

I have only really read half this thread but with the system we played towards the end of last season, would anyone like to see downing come in ?

seems to tick all of the boxes for me and adds competition now the likes of kewell have gone, and pennant surely to follow.

[Kopite_Colin]

I'll dig a little more Jan, I enjoy a good old fashioned hole digging. I don't think we should be playing 4-2-3-1 at home. We haven't got the full backs to be creative going forward nor do we have a forward thinking centre back with Agger injured. Playing 4-2-3-1 means we have 6 players stationed in our own half and we predominately play on the break rather than controlling possession and dictacting play. At home I'd prefer 4-4-2 with SG in the middle with one holding midfield. As things stand with mascherano, lucas and alonso, I'd leave mascherano out as he is the least forward thinking. If and when the personel change and we have marauding fullbacks overlapping, then mascherano is essential to fill in the gaps.

I'm in agreement with you. With 4 defenders we only need 1 holding MFer at home at most. I'd rather see 5 attacking players in front of Mascherano...Babel, SG, LM (e.g. Capel or Arshavin), Torres +1 striker (hopefully Villa)

[dww]

I'm not an enormous fan of having different formations or teams home and away. I think the best teams treat all games in the same way and always go out to win. I think two holding players is fine in all games - partly you have to get away from the British idea of a holding midfielder as a purely destructive force though. Players like Alonso (and say Pirlo or for the future Barry/Lucas) play the position as deep lying playmakers. In games where you are looking to attack the way to alter the balance of the team for me is to give them more options to use.

The obvious ways are to push the fullbacks forward. But obviously the make up of the front 4 can be altered to help too.

Last season we also saw that Mascher isn't always limited to short passes but that given space or good movement is willing and able to be more progressive. For me it is all about the team working as a unit and the way to get that happening for me is to have a solid unit to build from. I think last year United adopted essentially the Rafa team plan (at least in terms of the back 4 and central midfield) and it worked very well. It is a feature of our team pattern I would retain.

[Kopite_Colin]

Lucas's future in the Prem is not as holding / defensive midfielder - he doesn't have the physical attributes for that role in English football.

He really needs to up his game next season, imho. In fact I'd be of a mind to keep Xabi and send Lucas out on loan if we had to. He's 4th out of 5 in my list of CMs: Mascherano, Gerrard, Alonso, Lucas & Plessis

[dww]

I really like him in the role of spanish style holding midfielder actually. I think he uses the ball intelligently and is good at making himself available. Reminds me of a more mobile Gilberto Silva. If he can in addition bring more of what was seen from him in Brazil to his game when needed I think he will be a star for us. I'd never play Gerrard in the deep lying positions if I could help it.

[Kopite_Colin]

Gerrard can play anywhere but is wasted playing deep.

[Woobus]

Last season we also saw that Mascher isn't always limited to short passes but that given space or good movement is willing and able to be more progressive. For me it is all about the team working as a unit and the way to get that happening for me is to have a solid unit to build from. I think last year United adopted essentially the Rafa team plan (at least in terms of the back 4 and central midfield) and it worked very well. It is a feature of our team pattern I would retain.

Having two holding midfield type players can also be good in attack at times. I remember periods last season where we were constantly attacking, the opposition couldnt get out of there own half due to players like Momo and Mascher playing between their box and the half way line.
As soon as they got the ball back every exit was closed down and we got the ball back again. I can remember some of the games before Agger got injured that we spent nearly the whole match in their half.
We really do need a good attacking full back to help us make use of the ball and stretch them.

[Skillz]

Aguero. Rafa's surprise

[Slinky Skills]

Aguero. Rafa's surprise

Who's the source then?

[Skillz]

Who's the source then?

Me. In others words its my wish list. If we could get one player it would be 'Kun'.

Sorry if I misled you, I'm no insider

[one hope]

Presuming Rafa sticks with a 4-2-3-1, signing a player in his position and moving stevie g back to centre midfield is a much better option than shelling out 20m on Barry...I think Barry is a good player and will improve us in the league if he signs, but he is not as good as stevie g as a centre midfielder.

Gareth Barry is a good player; nothing more. He won't turn us into a title winning side. Rafa has spunked a fair amount of cash on youth players so he really ought to give them their chance. Why sign Barry when we have Plessis ready to step up to the 1st team?

[VladisVictoryRoar]

Gareth Barry is a good player; nothing more. He won't turn us into a title winning side. Rafa has spunked a fair amount of cash on youth players so he really ought to give them their chance. Why sign Barry when we have Plessis ready to step up to the 1st team?

Surely because Plessis is more of a holding player like Mascherano than Barry, who IMO will be bought in to play alongside Gerrard with Masch Behind them both.
That will bring balance to the midfield, take the pressure from Gerrard to be the only creative or goalscoring force in midfield. As it is now if Gerrard is well marked in a game or just doesnt perform, our whole team becomes toothless. I think this is why Raffa wants Barry more than some of the other players we are linked with.

[-V-]

. As it is now if Gerrard is well marked in a game or just doesnt perform, our whole team becomes toothless. I think this is why Raffa wants Barry more than some of the other players we are linked with.

It's Rafa

[VladisVictoryRoar]

It's Rafa

Not in Wales, boy.

[EST_1892]

Not in Wales, boy.

Kaip.... Is that you?