Let's (try to) have a discussion about football!

[JohnDoe]

I was thinking of starting a thread where everyone can express their ideas on football.

Obviously, we all express our opinions on subjects regarding the team and tactics, but we usually do it on a smaller scale i.e commenting on a player's ability. Sometimes, when you draw the bigger picture in your head, the small details start to make more sense and your opinion and general approach towards the game becomes clearer, even to yourself.

For example, if I ask anyone here what is the best way to score a goal from a wide position, I'll get different answers. Some will say drifting out and crossing the ball is usually more effective than cutting inside to shoot or slip a through ball. These answers might explain why a certain person prefers player A over player B.

We are all football managers, so why not read other people's general and wide ranging views on the game? Personally, I'm curious to know what some people have to say on things, especially people who have different views than me and it could be a refreshing read on the football forum.

Obviously, this can only work if people contribute, and some people will be lazy (probably too lazy to have made it to this sentence ) but this is the time for that type of discussion. It's the summer, there are no Liverpool games, so there isn't a better time to lean back and think.

I'll provide some questions to answer, but this can go anywhere really. It's always better to explain your answers than just give a one-word answer too

1. If you had a football team and had to pick the position where your best player plays (the guy you build the team round), what position would it be and why?

2. What's more important in a football team, pace or control? Pace: the ability to quickly attack the opposition and create threats as soon as possible (Playing a direct game). Control: the ability to dictate and determine the character of the game (Playing a possession game).

3. Which position do you think has the biggest influence on the amount of chances created, and the amount of goals scored by the team (This could have two answers). In other words, which position is the most crucial in order to have a good attacking game?

4. Do you like having a right footer on the left or a left footer on the right? Do you think wingers switching flanks is a good strategy to unsettle the opposition? When is it good, when is it not?

5. Is it easier to teach an attacking player to track back and defend, or a defensive player to go forward and attack? Imagine the two are top professionals with relatively equal ability in what they do.

6. If you had the choice between a lethal finisher with poor movement off the ball, or a poor finisher with fantastic off the ball movement, what would you choose?

7. What type of strikers make your ideal partnership up front? Do you like to have two all around strikers who do everything? Do you like a playmaker/poacher combo? A target man and a fox in the box? Pretend all possibilities are equal in ability.

8. Where does your playmaker sit if you believe you need one? Central midfield? Wide? Off the striker? On the bench?

9. You're 1-0 up with 20 minutes to go in the CL final. Do you tell your players to contain the pressure, or do you tell them to push forward and try to get the second? Would the answer change if there was more time/less on the clock? And no, you can't wobble your hands like Avram Grant.

10. Do you believe every top team these days needs a purely defensive midfielder, a "Makelele", to be a successful one? Can it consistently work throughout an entire season, to have two CM's who are similar in character and take turns in going forward?

11. Through balls or crosses? What's more dangerous to a defence with no obvious weaknesses?

12. What's more important in a full back playing in your ideal team? An excellent defender or an excellent attacker? He can't excel in both things.

13. Sign a good player now, or sign a better player near the end of the window? Remember that he won't spend pre-season with the team. Ignore costs.

14. When are physical attributes more important than mental ones? And when does it change?

15. How big an effect does a manager have on the result of one game?

16. In general, you would prefer treating a young attacking player by:
Giving him a clear role to help him establish his game.
Giving him a free role to help him develop his game.

17. And last, a psychological one.
I'm more likely to tell my players before the game:
"Go out there and beat them senseless"
"Go out there and show your worth"

I'll answer these myself when I finish some urgent stuff.

If you think there's something else you'd like to add, feel free.

Thank you

Now watch this thing disappear

[Imy]

synopsis?

All very good questions, too many really to answer in one thread.

[JohnDoe]

synopsis?

All very good questions, too many really to answer in one thread.

You don't have to answer all of them.

Answer the ones you're interested in, you lazy bum then maybe someone will notice your answer and say you're a cunt We could always split the thread afterwards.

This is how a good discussion starts

[Reece]

13. Sign a good player now, or sign a better player near the end of the window? Remember that he won't spend pre-season with the team. Ignore costs.

Sign a better player at the end. Hopefully, that fact that he is a better player means he shouldn't need to pre-season to fit in with his new team-mates so much.

[Imy]

OK i'll freely admit if I had a choice of the way the team played i'd like the team to play the Arsenal pass and move style. So many of their players not only possess pace but also skill and have a footballing brain to boot.

To answer question 1: If you had a football team and had to pick the position where your best player plays (the guy you build the team round), what position would it be and why?

It'd have to be a playmaker, the guy in the hole, the 'number 10' (or 7 if your King Kenny), If we look at the best players in history most of them have been from this position, the likes of Maradona, Pele, Zidane these are the guys that makes teams tick, these are the guys that provide flair and genius, these guys are the guys that will provide you with inspiration when the team is both up and down.

Currently Gerrard occupies that spot, yes he's done well but for me he's not the player i'd like to see in that position, i'd prefer an Arshavin or better still Aguero type, guys that can play both the long ball game or the beautiful intricate short pass and move game (my preferred game), Guys that can see a pass before the pieces on the board have fully moved, guys that can beat player not only through pace and strength but via trickery. Gerrard in my eyes is a power player, his skills would be better employed next to Mascher getting up and down the field, whilst your playmaker kills the opposition providing the ammunition for a late breaking Gerrard, Babel or Torres to score from.

So If i were Rafa i wouldn't bother with Milner or Barry etc i'd break the bank and sign Aguero.

[JohnDoe]

Sign a better player at the end. Hopefully, that fact that he is a better player means he shouldn't need to pre-season to fit in with his new team-mates so much.

Well, I think every player needs a settling in period in order to maximize his potential. Pre-season is very important, because you don't only coach new things into the player, you also need to coach things out of him, ideas he has learned at previous clubs and you're not interested in. When the season starts, you don't have much time to work with the player, you prepare for the games.

A piece of the puzzle which isn't as bright as the "better" player would still do a good job and he'll have the edge in terms of knowing what he needs to do in the crucial start of the season. I think it can also affect his confidence long term and bridge the gap on the quality difference. Obviously it depends on how big the difference in quality is between the players, but if it was a small one, I'd prefer getting a player in early.

[Reece]

Well, I think every player needs a settling in period in order to maximize his potential. Pre-season is very important, because you don't only coach new things into the player, you also need to coach things out of him, ideas he has learned at previous clubs and you're not interested in. When the season starts, you don't have much time to work with the player, you prepare for the games.

A piece of the puzzle which isn't as bright as the "better" player would still do a good job and he'll have the edge in terms of knowing what he needs to do in the crucial start of the season. I think it can also affect his confidence long term and bridge the gap on the quality difference. Obviously it depends on how big the difference in quality is between the players, but if it was a small one, I'd prefer getting a player in early.

But if it was a youngish player, thus probably a long term signing - would you not also look at the future benefits of getting the better player, rather than just the immediate benefits?

[Tatterdemalion]

At first I thought this was a thread for ******s, but then I decided not to contribute.

If I knew anything about football....


1. Centre Mid
2. Control - A good team should have pace when required (or brawn)
3. A good striker will always matter. Most teams create chances even if they're just throwing it into the box. Strikers cahnge games. Boring but true.
4. I think wingers switching flanks is a good idea - which leads me to believe that wingers should be two footed if possible rendering the rest of the argument secondary.
5. Wow. Good question. No idea. Would imagine it is harder to teach a forward to defend as mistakes can prove more crucial when defending.
6. I'd go for the lethal finisher with a good playmaker!
7. As a Liverpool fan I guess I'm biased (and spoilt). I would go for playmaker/poacher cuz I grew up in the '80s. Although to describe Rush as just a poacher is a bit mean.
8. Somewhere between mid and striker. TBH I think it's more important that a p[laymaker has a free role - they should be intelligent as well as technically good (sorry for staing the bloody obvious).
9. Personally I would push forward. I hate seeing teams hanging on to a lead, and often it doesn't work, whereas teams that are always going for the kill either get it or prevent the opposition from attacking.
10. Nope, but I think a good midfield combo always needs a workhorse.
11. My personal favourites are low crosses into the box.
12. Defending!
13. Better player later. He'll play next season too!
14. I think mental attributes are always more important as if a clever player thinks he needs to bulk up, he should do.
15. Absolutely no idea.
16. I think give him a free role, as I may not know what he is particularly good at.
17. beat em senseless. Everytime. Even in football.

Like I said - I know **** about about this ****. Especially about when I should and shouldn't contribute....

[Robbie-9-Fowler]

1. If i build my football team around one player then IMO it has to be a central player, CB or CM. This would also be the position i would have the team captain. Gerrard is the perfect example, or was when he played as CM. The reason for this is they can have a larger influence on the game and see more of the ball, the best players have the biggest impact and lead by example.

2. I don't think you can choose between control and pace, I believe a team should be able to dictate the play and change the pace of the game accordingly. Manchester United done this last year and we all know the result.

3. Players who create the most are usually in the hole or attacking wide. Its a hard decision but with decent delivery in the English game I would say more chances are created by the wide me.

4. As i have mentioned in another thread i would like to have a right footed player on the left and left footer on the right. This is because it invited full-backs to join in the attack which gives the options of hitting the touchline or cutting inside for a shot or through ball.

5. Defending is more difficult to teach to an attacking player IMO, Attacking is about ability and you said Top Pro's so they should be confident enough to attack. Defending take a lot of concentration and discipline, there are ofcourse players like Kuyt and Rooney who are good at getting back but they are in the minority.

6. I have to pick the player with better movement, he's more likely to get more chances and still score a fair few. The player can also make room for other players and bring team mates into play.

7. For a strike partnership i think its important to have one player who is willing to drop deep when things arnt happening, without this type of player they strikers can become isolated and shut out. Torres and Villa work because both have excellent work rate. Also i would like to see how Berbatov and Torres would work, a clever player with fantastic control and vision with a player with plenty of pace and good finishing.

8. IMO a playmaker needs to be playing behind the striker/s if they are to have the biggest impact, see Kaka for example.

9. With 20 minutes to go of such an important game then i would through sportsmanship clean out the window! Plenty of closing down, slow the pace, waste time to a certain extent. Use a target man as an outlet to hold the ball up and play off him, if playing 442 bring on another central midfielder to help win the battle. With more that 20 minutes to go then carry on attaking but with caution and keep fullbacks in positon.

10. In English football the top teams need atleast one defensive midfielder IMO. In away games it might be necessary to use 2, Without a defensive midfielder teams have to play a higher defensive line to close the gap between defence and midfield. This gives teams the opportunity to play long ball behind the full back. Defensive Mids are also useful for man marking and picking up players who play behind the strikers. Mascherano proved vital in our second CL final and stopped Kaka creating chances.

11. Through balls are far easier on the eye and create clear chances. However nothing beats a good cross which teases both defender and keeper and the player usually will be in a position that he should score 9/10.

12. IMO a team can win a game if a fullback defends well and fails to attack, if a fullback is weak at defending then the central defenders job is made twice as difficult and good counter attacking teams will make you pay.

13. Without doubt sign a better player later in the transfer window, regardless if he misses out on pre-season with the squad, he is still a better player and the team will benefit in the long run.

14. Physical attributes are more important towards the end of a game when others are tiring and the fitter players seem to take advantage. Mental attributes are more important during tactical game when teams are seemingly even on paper, players need to make the right decisions at every moment during the game. This can be holding your postion, pushing forward when to pass the ball and when to dribble. Between even teams, the team with better decision making will usually come out on top. A lapse in concentration can lead to mistake and at the top level that usually results in a goal which can decide the game.

15. The manger of a team has a major say on how a match goes, he has to prepare right, motivate players aswell as pick the right players for the right positions. A good manager need to be able to accept his mistake and change it during a game, this could be a change in formation, style of play or player.

16. I would give a young attacking player a solid position until they are comfortable, once they have settled i may then look at giving them a free role but i believe a young player needs stablilty if they are to become a success.

17. I would probably say neither and it would depend on the type of game and opponent but, if i had to choose 1 of the 2 then; "Go out there and show your worth" because the other is a bit cocky for me.

[Icon]

1. If you had a football team and had to pick the position where your best player plays (the guy you build the team round), what position would it be and why?

Depends on each players attributes?

2. What's more important in a football team, pace or control? Pace: the ability to quickly attack the opposition and create threats as soon as possible (Playing a direct game). Control: the ability to dictate and determine the character of the game (Playing a possession game).

No point in having pace if you have no control.

3. Which position do you think has the biggest influence on the amount of chances created, and the amount of goals scored by the team (This could have two answers). In other words, which position is the most crucial in order to have a good attacking game?

Midfield

4. Do you like having a right footer on the left or a left footer on the right? Do you think wingers switching flanks is a good strategy to unsettle the opposition? When is it good, when is it not?

Always requires 2 footed otherwise swutching creates width problems if they cant move in comfortabley.

5. Is it easier to teach an attacking player to track back and defend, or a defensive player to go forward and attack? Imagine the two are top professionals with relatively equal ability in what they do.

Prob easier for a defender to attack (at intervals) to at least supply the final pass.

6. If you had the choice between a lethal finisher with poor movement off the ball, or a poor finisher with fantastic off the ball movement, what would you choose?

What position?

7. What type of strikers make your ideal partnership up front? Do you like to have two all around strikers who do everything? Do you like a playmaker/poacher combo? A target man and a fox in the box? Pretend all possibilities are equal in ability.

Two all round - switchable.

8. Where does your playmaker sit if you believe you need one? Central midfield? Wide? Off the striker? On the bench?

Central midfield with open option to feed striker.

9. You're 1-0 up with 20 minutes to go in the CL final. Do you tell your players to contain the pressure, or do you tell them to push forward and try to get the second? Would the answer change if there was more time/less on the clock? And no, you can't wobble your hands like Avram Grant.

Best defense is attack.

10. Do you believe every top team these days needs a purely defensive midfielder, a "Makelele", to be a successful one? Can it consistently work throughout an entire season, to have two CM's who are similar in character and take turns in going forward?

No. Defenders should defend and midfield should supply the strikers or attack.

11. Through balls or crosses? What's more dangerous to a defence with no obvious weaknesses?

Both are required for different defences. Torres will use a thru ball and Crouch will use a cross.

12. What's more important in a full back playing in your ideal team? An excellent defender or an excellent attacker? He can't excel in both things.

Full back = defender.....no?

13. Sign a good player now, or sign a better player near the end of the window? Remember that he won't spend pre-season with the team. Ignore costs.

Wait and spend better. If they are worth their salt they'll adapt.

14. When are physical attributes more important than mental ones? And when does it change?

Both are always required - extra time / penalties etc.

15. How big an effect does a manager have on the result of one game?

Can mean everything to have right words and tactics - take Istanbul.

16. In general, you would prefer treating a young attacking player by:
Giving him a clear role to help him establish his game.
Giving him a free role to help him develop his game.

Discipline - give him a clear role. WIll work dividends later.

17. And last, a psychological one.
I'm more likely to tell my players before the game:
"Go out there and beat them senseless"
"Go out there and show your worth"

"Go out there and win"

[JohnDoe]

But if it was a youngish player, thus probably a long term signing - would you not also look at the future benefits of getting the better player, rather than just the immediate benefits?

True, it is a complicated question and it does depend on the situation. You might afford to sign one player late in the window and it wouldn't hurt your pre-season as much, but the ideal is to get players early.

When you look at a top team, not all of them are world beaters. The world beaters are worth waiting for, that is true, but when you build the team around those world beaters, you need good players who will compliment them. These players help your key players perform, and what is most important is the chemistry in the team.

You could also argue, that good early results will affect the long term consistency and confidence of the player signed, which could eclipse the supposed gap in quality thought of in the summer of 2008, and it will be irrelevant in the summer of 2009. What will be relevant then is how good was our season.

I think it's more important when you talk about foreign signings. Part of the reason why Torres was such a success, and he admitted it himself, was his settling period. He had a very good pre-season with us, and I doubt he would have had such a great season if he came in late August.

Let's say we could sign a better left back than Dossena at the end of August. Would you wait for that left back (who would cost the same) or would you prefer to concentrate on bringing the best out of Dossena now in order to gel the team together?

I think if you look at past signings, and if you ignore big differences in quality, early signings are better both long term and short term.

[Tatterdemalion]

On different note - I like tits.

[JohnDoe]

2. What's more important in a football team, pace or control? Pace: the ability to quickly attack the opposition and create threats as soon as possible (Playing a direct game). Control: the ability to dictate and determine the character of the game (Playing a possession game).

No point in having pace if you have no control.

Having control and no direct play can be as damaging as what you've suggested. Roy Evans' Liverpool were exactly that. We were passing the ball around and controlled 95% of the games we played in, but we ended up losing many of them because sides hit us on the counter. Some of them were not as talented as us, even top sides.

6. If you had the choice between a lethal finisher with poor movement off the ball, or a poor finisher with fantastic off the ball movement, what would you choose?

What position?

Striker.

12. What's more important in a full back playing in your ideal team? An excellent defender or an excellent attacker? He can't excel in both things.

Full back = defender.....no?

There are many top full backs who do well by just being adequate defenders and great attackers... actually, most of the full backs raved about in this forum fit that bill.

[Icon]

Having control and no direct play can be as damaging as what you've suggested. Roy Evans' Liverpool were exactly that. We were passing the ball around and controlled 95% of the games we played in, but we ended up losing many of them because sides hit us on the counter. Some of them were not as talented as us, even top sides.

Roy Evans Liverpool lost games because of a lack of ethic and discipline.

'Kamikaze Football' I think Roy called it.

[Icon]

6. Lethal finisher. Let the other guy control off ball movement.

12. First and foremost a full back must be able to defend well.