Rafa's Last Season?

[Slinky Skills]

I don't think we'll win the league to be honest, but like Carra said just to make a challenge would be nice. I'm sick of being 10-15 points off each season.

We are a lot stronger and the nucleaus of the team is there, but we have to be far more consistent. Utd are the ****ers we have to start beating, if we beat them *******s then we'll have a real shot at the title.

If we finish 3rd or 4th again and miles off the points as in previous years then Rafa will be in the **** imo.

[Reece]

Nope.

Where is my yellow card?

[Pacman]

[mouphy]

shake your head all you want. i wasn't a houllier fan but he finished 2nd one year and was in the title race in the last part of the season once also. rafa has failed to emulate this. for once fredo this this not about opinion but fact.

Phil Thompson was in charge of the 1st team for 5 months that season, fact

[Roboklopp]

The facts (feel free to flesh out exactly if my memory fails me, but the pattern remains) are that the Prem has had numerous representatives in the CL semis each year since Rafa arrived & at least one in the final. Before that it had none in the final since 99 & just one in the semi. That is a measue of how the competition has improved dramatically.

Also, the facts are the Chelsea have had an unprecedented amount of spending poured into them & that Scum (the strongest team beforehand) have had to spend big to stay at the top & that the Gooners (the second strongest team beforehand) have really struggled since Abramobitch & have only finished above us once in 3 seasons.

we should sack him, then hopefully we can bring in another manager with a 5 year plan so we can start calling for his head after three years.

If you want facts here they are
Houllier averaged 65.6 points a season, while the winning average was 85 points
Rafa averages 71 points per season, while the average is now 90.5 points

If you take away both of their first seasons (Houllier/Evans joint and Rafa's first) the averages change as follows:
Houllier 68/86.2
Rafa 75.33/89

So the facts are that
1. We are doing better points wise under Rafa
2. It is harder to win the league under Rafa

Rag, please respond to these facts we have taken the trouble to point out for your benefit.

[NICKZS]

he's had 4 seasons amigo. a minimum expectation in the league has got to be set. being out of the title race by xmas every year is not good enough.

rafa has been backed every year and he's failed to do this.

i'd like to think that the best managers don't use excuses like oh but they had more money to spend than i did. they compete regardless.

i really want him to succeed but the next time he decides to rest torres in a league game only to play him in a midweek carling cup game should be used to demonstrate why we fail to compete rather than lack of funds.

I suppose people see things differently. Whilst Rafa has made errors in the league and hasn't mounted a really serious challenge a lot of people see the progress that the team is making, from the youth levels up to the first-team, and think that there is still a lot of untold potential yet to be realised under Benitez.

Of course this is simply opinion so there is little anyone is able to do to disprove the validity of this perceived faith in the current management bar stating our previous record in the Prem without providing a sense of context. Rafa has had some tough hurdles to overcome IMO and we are just now starting to see this 'project' come to proper fruition.

Of course, if Rafa has a terrible season then he should be questioned, but to say he should be sacked if he doesn't win the league without a ball having been kicked yet is jumping the gun a little.

[dww]

I can see where you are coming from, Rafa has been given a lot of money to spend, although maybe not in the usual here is £100mill go spend, but he is now making bigger and better signings (Torres, babel, Mascher, Keane)
I think we have to be top 2 at the very least and challenging all the way for Rafa to be able to justify staying on. We do have a very very good team, we have added some quality and depth to it this season and also have got some talented young kids coming through. Can rafa get the formula right so it all comes together come may?

I think that the idea that we have to be top 2 is a bit over the top. I think we have to accept that United and Chelsea have raised the bar hugely since Rafa took over and have had the resources every season to buy the players they want (on top of starting with better squads). I think the only way to compete with the likes of United and Chelsea for a team with less money like ourselves is long term stability and growing a team. I don't think anyone wants to settle for anything other than winning but the desire and romance of wanting a league title has to be balanced by realism.

I think in the last two years we have started to see the laying down of a great team for the future with a spine that will last potentially another 4 years or so. With a lot of young players who can and in my view will grow as a unit under Rafa. To break with the consistency we would have to identify someone who would have a much higher chance of success and I see noone around - in all the big leagues the teams with the most money are winning the title consistently (there may be some small debate about Germany I guess but Bayern only flexed their muscles again this year and won at a canter as a result).

Every season, every top teams manager is potentially at risk. If we fail to get CL football Rafa will go, undoubtedly for example. However I think we have to accept that we will not ever again be favourites for the title unless the financial landscape changes or our youth team really produces a whole generation of stars (in the style of the 90s United one).

[Roboklopp]

I think that the idea that we have to be top 2 is a bit over the top. I think we have to accept that United and Chelsea have raised the bar hugely since Rafa took over and have had the resources every season to buy the players they want (on top of starting with better squads). I think the only way to compete with the likes of United and Chelsea for a team with less money like ourselves is long term stability and growing a team. I don't think anyone wants to settle for anything other than winning but the desire and romance of wanting a league title has to be balanced by realism.

I think in the last two years we have started to see the laying down of a great team for the future with a spine that will last potentially another 4 years or so. With a lot of young players who can and in my view will grow as a unit under Rafa. To break with the consistency we would have to identify someone who would have a much higher chance of success and I see noone around - in all the big leagues the teams with the most money are winning the title consistently (there may be some small debate about Germany I guess but Bayern only flexed their muscles again this year and won at a canter as a result).

Every season, every top teams manager is potentially at risk. If we fail to get CL football Rafa will go, undoubtedly for example. However I think we have to accept that we will not ever again be favourites for the title unless the financial landscape changes or our youth team really produces a whole generation of stars (in the style of the 90s United one).

The voice of pragmatism.

[Robbie-9-Fowler]

I really hope it isn't his last season if he doesn't win the title, we are getting so much better under him. He understands the fans and has proved loyal by turning down the team he supports in real madrid. Letting him go would be a mistake IMO, who is better that can replace him

Oh and you can kiss goodbye to our current european success if Rafa leaves too

[Fan65]

failure to finish top - maybe a close 2nd - imo will see rafa gone

What a negative response.

He's trying to build a winning team with the money he's allowed

He's just bought a top striker to partner the top striker..he has strength in depth in all positions and has loads of young potentially great players in the making also he's trying to improve the squad further before the season starts

And all you can say is that you think he'll be gone if he finishes second....

Give him a chance, the season hasn't started yet !!!

[Roboklopp]

It seems the 'tard brigade has done one now that the counter-arguments have been collated & coherently structured.

Mods, please lock this thread...etc...etc...

[Skillz]

I suppose people see things differently. Whilst Rafa has made errors in the league and hasn't mounted a really serious challenge a lot of people see the progress that the team is making, from the youth levels up to the first-team, and think that there is still a lot of untold potential yet to be realised under Benitez.

Of course this is simply opinion so there is little anyone is able to do to disprove the validity of this perceived faith in the current management bar stating our previous record in the Prem without providing a sense of context. Rafa has had some tough hurdles to overcome IMO and we are just now starting to see this 'project' come to proper fruition.

Of course, if Rafa has a terrible season then he should be questioned, but to say he should be sacked if he doesn't win the league without a ball having been kicked yet is jumping the gun a little.

Very well said and I think that sums up a lot of what is a silent majority IMO. If not it sums up my feelings pretty much.

[Davex2IRL]

Can anyone one name a manager in the world who is available and they would like to replace Rafa, I can't...

[Skillz]

I think that the idea that we have to be top 2 is a bit over the top. I think we have to accept that United and Chelsea have raised the bar hugely since Rafa took over and have had the resources every season to buy the players they want (on top of starting with better squads). I think the only way to compete with the likes of United and Chelsea for a team with less money like ourselves is long term stability and growing a team. I don't think anyone wants to settle for anything other than winning but the desire and romance of wanting a league title has to be balanced by realism.

I think in the last two years we have started to see the laying down of a great team for the future with a spine that will last potentially another 4 years or so. With a lot of young players who can and in my view will grow as a unit under Rafa. To break with the consistency we would have to identify someone who would have a much higher chance of success and I see noone around - in all the big leagues the teams with the most money are winning the title consistently (there may be some small debate about Germany I guess but Bayern only flexed their muscles again this year and won at a canter as a result).

Every season, every top teams manager is potentially at risk. If we fail to get CL football Rafa will go, undoubtedly for example. However I think we have to accept that we will not ever again be favourites for the title unless the financial landscape changes or our youth team really produces a whole generation of stars (in the style of the 90s United one).

That sums it up even better.


EDIT: locking thread would be appropriate, the optimists have won

[cannotmakeit]

Season yet to start and the knives are out already. Most knowledgeable fans in the country my arse.