Sky Sports 1 Sunday Supplement
10th August 2008
For those who missed the programme at 9.30 this morning I thought I'd post the transcription of the part where they spoke about Liverpool issues:
Brian Woolnough (Daily Star), Martin Samuel (The Times), Neil Custis, Henry Winter (Daily Telegraph)
BW: The chaos at Anfield just won't go away and it's summed up by this headline in the NOTW; Embarrassed and isolated - Rafa is facing same old story. Chris Bascombe knows Anfield probably better than most, and I think that reflects how Benitez, Henry Winter, is feeling today with the American Owners - embarrassment?
HW: Definitely embarrassment. This has been happening with these two Americans for the last sort of eighteen months and it's going to scupper Liverpool's season again. And we're seeing it over the Gareth Barry deal at the moment. Now Gareth Barry has been absolutely fantastic for Aston Villa. Leaving aside the emotion from Villa Park's end and Martin O'Neil's end, he is just the sort of player Liverpool need, that sort of English, British player who is going to absolutely deliver for every game throughout the season if they are going to have a proper tilt at the title for the first time since '90.
BW: But is he worth £18m which is what the American owners are concerned about? They think he's worth £12m.
HW: Well, if Liverpool think Alonso is worth £17m to £18m then Gareth Barry's probably worth about £20m. I mean football's finances are daft, you'd have to accept that. If £18m is the going rate in the current over-inflated market...
BW: Carrick and Hargreaves went for £18m.
HW: Exactly. I think Barry has been outstanding. He's probably been England's best midfielder over the last year. If you have him in there and you have left foot-right foot with him and Mascherano holding, and then you've got Gerrard playing as he loves playing off Torres, and you've got Robbie Keane who can either play up front or he can play wide left as we've seen it at Tottenham, and then you have Ryan Babel on the right or Dirk Kuyt if he stays, so Liverpool have the potential to break into the top two but they do need Gareth Barry and they need the American Owners to behave themselves.
BW: It doesn't look as though they're going to get him. Chris Bascombe is also running a story saying that to keep Rafa happy they're going to try to bid for David Silva, and also Rick Parry, the Chief Executive, says in the bottom of the story "this is not about questioning the manager's judgement or the ability of a particular player. The owners have demonstrated they are willing to back Rafa in the transfer market and will continue to do so". But Benitez won't feel that.
HW: David Silva is a completely different player than Gareth Barry. Gareth Barry is more a holding midfielder who lets the creative players play, like Gerrard. I mean, why would Robbie Keane go there if they're then going to go and get in a David Silva who can play on the left? That doesn't make sense. They've got the attacking side sorted out, they need to sort out that heartbeat. I would have Barry in ahead of Alonso. If they can get him Liverpool might have a chance of getting into the top two.
BW: If they don't get Barry, and MoN at Villa has threatened to play him in the Champions League (sic) this week and they don't get him, Will that be a split or not?
MS: Yes, of course it will. They've telegraphed this all summer haven't they. This is the guy that they were going for all summer. This was the guy that they wanted. And in the end Aston Villa gave up and said "Look okay, you come up with the money and you can have him". They fought it as hard as they possibly could and I can see where Aston Villa are going in terms of playing him in the UEFA Cup because sooner or later, they can't... They waved Liverpool through. A couple of weeks ago they waved Liverpool through; "okay, let's get it done". And two weeks later and Liverpool are still messing about with it, and to say is he worth £18m. If that is the guy that wins the title for Liverpool he’s worth double £18m. If they end up winning the title, because they haven't won a title in the modern era. In the Premier League era they haven't won the title.
NC: It's interesting talking about the owners. I know when the Glaziers took... When they took over at Liverpool it was like great fanfare, Liverpool fancied money's coming in, we're going to buy more, we're going to win the title. When the Glaziers took over at Scum there was riots outside Old Trafford. They still have to be shoved out the back doors of hotels you know. But the Glaziers, although it would not be a popular thing to say in Manchester, the Glaziers have completely taken a back seat. They have never meddled. Every time Fergiscum wanted a player they have said you can have that player. And they've almost been the perfect owners. They've never given an interview or anything. They've almost been the perfect owners. These two have changed Liverpool from a club with great class into a near laughing stock in the way they've dealt with things. How do these two Americans suddenly know what Gareth Barry's worth? Laughable.
BW: How would Fergiscum have handled it as well if he'd have said he wanted to get Gareth Barry and somebody had said "sorry he's not worth £18m he's only worth £12m you can't have him"?
HW: Now Rafa Benitez is the manager who brought them the Champions League in 2005. Now he does have a pedigree. He's done it in England, he's done it in Spain. They should back him and the sadness for Liverpool, for the Kop, you can see at some point Rafa Benitez, some point next year, saying "Listen, I don't like this civil war. I'm not getting the players that I want." and leaving for a major job in Spain. Probably with Real Madrid.
NC: He's still spent a lot of money hasn't he?
BW: He has. Is Robbie Keane good value?
HW: Great value. I couldn't understand the criticism of £20m for a 28 year old. Now we're always told that 28 is absolutely peak and Keane is one of those players, and I'm sure an awful lot of Tottenham Hotspur fans are absolutely distraught to see him go because he is a leader whether he's got the armband or not, he's very selfless in terms of where he'll play, he's very versatile - he can play up top, he can play wide left - he can link with players. He's terrific and apparently, pre-season, he's been linking very well with Torres and Gerrard. I think he's a great signing but they do not need another attacking player like a David Silva and need Barry if they're going to make this tick.
MS: And you can do that anyway. You can't do that thing of "you can't have the player you want, but we'll get you this player instead". That was happening, by all accounts, to Bobby Robson at Newcastle who'd go in and ask for a right-back. "Well you can't have a right-back but we'll get you another striker". Well that's no good if you need a right-back, you know?
BW: So, if you're Benitez do you say to them "No, I want Barry"?
MS: Yes, absolutely. And they've got to get it done. They've got to get it done by Thursday.
BW: UEFA Cup?
MS: If I was MoN on Thursday, Barry would play. Because you've got to draw a line under it. You've got to just go "Right, we've given you two weeks to sort this out now guys. He plays for us on Thursday".
NC: You have to remember that Aston Villa are a huge club who have aspirations to be in the position that Liverpool are currently in.
MS: Absolutely.
NC: Which is why they've fought so hard to keep Gareth Barry. But Barry's obviously pushed the issue so much they feel they can't do that. But Aston Villa are building something there, again with a good owner, which you've really got the foundations there with O'Neil for them to maybe break into that four which everyone says no-one is going to do.
HW: You see Randy Learner is a proper American owner in all this because he's come in, okay there hasn't been the issue of the ground because all the ground is built, they've got a terrific fan base there, and he's got an outstanding manager in MoN. But maybe the Americans at Anfield should look and see how Randy Learner's behaving and certainly his professional relationship with MoN.
BW: MoN seems to have come out of this well. You know "He's £18m. That's his price and you're not getting him unless you pay it".
HW: But it must be very frustrating for MoN because he genuinely believes that he can challenge Liverpool and actually get in, almost replace them, in the top four. But he needs Gareth Barry and he also needs Gareth Barry's heart to be at Villa Park as well as his body if he holds on to him next season. And it does look as if Gareth Barry's head is very much at Anfield.
MS: And also it's the message it sends out as well to all of these clubs that are aspiring to be in the top four if you keep selling your best players to the teams that are in the top four. No-one's going to take you seriously as... you know it's the Tottenham, if Tottenham lose Berbatov to Scum, all of the work they've done in the Summer in terms of getting Modric and getting Bently and looking like serious players will be undone because they've sold their best player.
HW: And time is running out as well. If you want to find a replacement for Gareth Barry say even if he does go, towards the end of the week, the clock is ticking before the 31st deadline to actually get in anywhere near half as good a replacement.
NC I have to say Gareth Barry has become a much better player since Liverpool tried to buy him.
BW: He's good for England. He's played well for them. He and Gerrard played, I mean Gerrard would like him at Anfield.
NC: He's only just become that England player though hasn't he. Suddenly Gareth Barry is the answer to all of Liverpool's problems.
BW: He's been around a long time.
MS: To be fair he was on the field for all the matches, exactly the same matches that we didn't qualify from. He was on the field against Croatia (and we still got beat 3-2). I take your point, but he has, you can see with that Liverpool team, as Henry says, you can see this shape that, if they get Gareth Barry, it just falls into place. That's it, they're set up.
NC: I just wonder how many teams in the last European championships would have had Gareth Barry in them, certainly those that finished in the last eight?
HW: But what we saw in the Euros was how many teams were playing almost 4-2-3-1. Almost with two holding players, and Gareth Barry is an outstanding holding player who can also deliver the old good free kick and corner. I think he's terrific. Having said that I don't think he was Villa's best player last season. I thought Ashley Young was.
BW: He was the only player to play in all England's games last season.
HW: I wouldn't hold that against him.
MS: I was going to say.
BW: That's cut his value.
MS: That's not exactly the ringing endorsement it will sound like.
NC: Aston Villa don't know what they're doing by the sounds of it.
BW: Do you think he'll go?
NC: Not now. Not with all this going on I wouldn't have thought so. And, as you say, Aston Villa need to get their plans in order for the coming season and O'Neil isn't a man to be messed about too much is he.
MS: I don't think they've got the money.
BW: But what's Benitez do. Does he just swallow this and say "okay then we'll just get on with something else"? There has to be a problem with Benitez and...
NC: There seems to be constantly at odds and constant, they're always seems to be a moan from Benitez, you know, and he's spent a lot of money, he's had a lot of time and he's come nowhere near winning the Premiership title, although he's been superb in Europe, he's come nowhere near winning the Premiership title. So a lot of this posturing, complaining, controversy sometimes takes the spotlight away from what is actually happening on the pitch which in the Premier League stakes has not been great.
HW: But Alonso looks very interesting in all of this because Benitez has effectively said "well we're quite happy to sell you to Juventus if we get Barry in", but Liverpool fans from most reports are being incredibly supportive of Alonso. So if Barry doesn't come and Alonso stays and starts alongside Mascherano in midfield, it'll be interesting to see what sort of mood he's in knowing that the manager wanted him out?
BW: Wanted him out as well, yeah. Also, Barry's mood at Villa with the relationship with MoN of course. It's like Ronaldo with the fans; how will Villa fans react to Barry. They already started to boo him.
MS: well they booed him then they cheered him didn't they. They booed him and then they changed their minds when they thought he might stay so it's all a bit like that.
HW: I think MoN is one of those managers who will work on Barry if he does stay and Barry will have a good season.
NC: Barry is a very different character as well. He is a very unassuming sort of type. I don't think Villa fans will turn against him. I see he's been slightly much a pawn in a game rather than someone who’s driven this.
BW: Yes absolutely.
MS: And also, if he takes a step back and looks at it, you know, Liverpool have had their chance. Keep hankering after this "I want to move to Liverpool". Well Liverpool have got their chance. If they really want you, now's the time.
BW: The fee's £18m and that's it.
10th August 2008
For those who missed the programme at 9.30 this morning I thought I'd post the transcription of the part where they spoke about Liverpool issues:
Brian Woolnough (Daily Star), Martin Samuel (The Times), Neil Custis, Henry Winter (Daily Telegraph)
BW: The chaos at Anfield just won't go away and it's summed up by this headline in the NOTW; Embarrassed and isolated - Rafa is facing same old story. Chris Bascombe knows Anfield probably better than most, and I think that reflects how Benitez, Henry Winter, is feeling today with the American Owners - embarrassment?
HW: Definitely embarrassment. This has been happening with these two Americans for the last sort of eighteen months and it's going to scupper Liverpool's season again. And we're seeing it over the Gareth Barry deal at the moment. Now Gareth Barry has been absolutely fantastic for Aston Villa. Leaving aside the emotion from Villa Park's end and Martin O'Neil's end, he is just the sort of player Liverpool need, that sort of English, British player who is going to absolutely deliver for every game throughout the season if they are going to have a proper tilt at the title for the first time since '90.
BW: But is he worth £18m which is what the American owners are concerned about? They think he's worth £12m.
HW: Well, if Liverpool think Alonso is worth £17m to £18m then Gareth Barry's probably worth about £20m. I mean football's finances are daft, you'd have to accept that. If £18m is the going rate in the current over-inflated market...
BW: Carrick and Hargreaves went for £18m.
HW: Exactly. I think Barry has been outstanding. He's probably been England's best midfielder over the last year. If you have him in there and you have left foot-right foot with him and Mascherano holding, and then you've got Gerrard playing as he loves playing off Torres, and you've got Robbie Keane who can either play up front or he can play wide left as we've seen it at Tottenham, and then you have Ryan Babel on the right or Dirk Kuyt if he stays, so Liverpool have the potential to break into the top two but they do need Gareth Barry and they need the American Owners to behave themselves.
BW: It doesn't look as though they're going to get him. Chris Bascombe is also running a story saying that to keep Rafa happy they're going to try to bid for David Silva, and also Rick Parry, the Chief Executive, says in the bottom of the story "this is not about questioning the manager's judgement or the ability of a particular player. The owners have demonstrated they are willing to back Rafa in the transfer market and will continue to do so". But Benitez won't feel that.
HW: David Silva is a completely different player than Gareth Barry. Gareth Barry is more a holding midfielder who lets the creative players play, like Gerrard. I mean, why would Robbie Keane go there if they're then going to go and get in a David Silva who can play on the left? That doesn't make sense. They've got the attacking side sorted out, they need to sort out that heartbeat. I would have Barry in ahead of Alonso. If they can get him Liverpool might have a chance of getting into the top two.
BW: If they don't get Barry, and MoN at Villa has threatened to play him in the Champions League (sic) this week and they don't get him, Will that be a split or not?
MS: Yes, of course it will. They've telegraphed this all summer haven't they. This is the guy that they were going for all summer. This was the guy that they wanted. And in the end Aston Villa gave up and said "Look okay, you come up with the money and you can have him". They fought it as hard as they possibly could and I can see where Aston Villa are going in terms of playing him in the UEFA Cup because sooner or later, they can't... They waved Liverpool through. A couple of weeks ago they waved Liverpool through; "okay, let's get it done". And two weeks later and Liverpool are still messing about with it, and to say is he worth £18m. If that is the guy that wins the title for Liverpool he’s worth double £18m. If they end up winning the title, because they haven't won a title in the modern era. In the Premier League era they haven't won the title.
NC: It's interesting talking about the owners. I know when the Glaziers took... When they took over at Liverpool it was like great fanfare, Liverpool fancied money's coming in, we're going to buy more, we're going to win the title. When the Glaziers took over at Scum there was riots outside Old Trafford. They still have to be shoved out the back doors of hotels you know. But the Glaziers, although it would not be a popular thing to say in Manchester, the Glaziers have completely taken a back seat. They have never meddled. Every time Fergiscum wanted a player they have said you can have that player. And they've almost been the perfect owners. They've never given an interview or anything. They've almost been the perfect owners. These two have changed Liverpool from a club with great class into a near laughing stock in the way they've dealt with things. How do these two Americans suddenly know what Gareth Barry's worth? Laughable.
BW: How would Fergiscum have handled it as well if he'd have said he wanted to get Gareth Barry and somebody had said "sorry he's not worth £18m he's only worth £12m you can't have him"?
HW: Now Rafa Benitez is the manager who brought them the Champions League in 2005. Now he does have a pedigree. He's done it in England, he's done it in Spain. They should back him and the sadness for Liverpool, for the Kop, you can see at some point Rafa Benitez, some point next year, saying "Listen, I don't like this civil war. I'm not getting the players that I want." and leaving for a major job in Spain. Probably with Real Madrid.
NC: He's still spent a lot of money hasn't he?
BW: He has. Is Robbie Keane good value?
HW: Great value. I couldn't understand the criticism of £20m for a 28 year old. Now we're always told that 28 is absolutely peak and Keane is one of those players, and I'm sure an awful lot of Tottenham Hotspur fans are absolutely distraught to see him go because he is a leader whether he's got the armband or not, he's very selfless in terms of where he'll play, he's very versatile - he can play up top, he can play wide left - he can link with players. He's terrific and apparently, pre-season, he's been linking very well with Torres and Gerrard. I think he's a great signing but they do not need another attacking player like a David Silva and need Barry if they're going to make this tick.
MS: And you can do that anyway. You can't do that thing of "you can't have the player you want, but we'll get you this player instead". That was happening, by all accounts, to Bobby Robson at Newcastle who'd go in and ask for a right-back. "Well you can't have a right-back but we'll get you another striker". Well that's no good if you need a right-back, you know?
BW: So, if you're Benitez do you say to them "No, I want Barry"?
MS: Yes, absolutely. And they've got to get it done. They've got to get it done by Thursday.
BW: UEFA Cup?
MS: If I was MoN on Thursday, Barry would play. Because you've got to draw a line under it. You've got to just go "Right, we've given you two weeks to sort this out now guys. He plays for us on Thursday".
NC: You have to remember that Aston Villa are a huge club who have aspirations to be in the position that Liverpool are currently in.
MS: Absolutely.
NC: Which is why they've fought so hard to keep Gareth Barry. But Barry's obviously pushed the issue so much they feel they can't do that. But Aston Villa are building something there, again with a good owner, which you've really got the foundations there with O'Neil for them to maybe break into that four which everyone says no-one is going to do.
HW: You see Randy Learner is a proper American owner in all this because he's come in, okay there hasn't been the issue of the ground because all the ground is built, they've got a terrific fan base there, and he's got an outstanding manager in MoN. But maybe the Americans at Anfield should look and see how Randy Learner's behaving and certainly his professional relationship with MoN.
BW: MoN seems to have come out of this well. You know "He's £18m. That's his price and you're not getting him unless you pay it".
HW: But it must be very frustrating for MoN because he genuinely believes that he can challenge Liverpool and actually get in, almost replace them, in the top four. But he needs Gareth Barry and he also needs Gareth Barry's heart to be at Villa Park as well as his body if he holds on to him next season. And it does look as if Gareth Barry's head is very much at Anfield.
MS: And also it's the message it sends out as well to all of these clubs that are aspiring to be in the top four if you keep selling your best players to the teams that are in the top four. No-one's going to take you seriously as... you know it's the Tottenham, if Tottenham lose Berbatov to Scum, all of the work they've done in the Summer in terms of getting Modric and getting Bently and looking like serious players will be undone because they've sold their best player.
HW: And time is running out as well. If you want to find a replacement for Gareth Barry say even if he does go, towards the end of the week, the clock is ticking before the 31st deadline to actually get in anywhere near half as good a replacement.
NC I have to say Gareth Barry has become a much better player since Liverpool tried to buy him.
BW: He's good for England. He's played well for them. He and Gerrard played, I mean Gerrard would like him at Anfield.
NC: He's only just become that England player though hasn't he. Suddenly Gareth Barry is the answer to all of Liverpool's problems.
BW: He's been around a long time.
MS: To be fair he was on the field for all the matches, exactly the same matches that we didn't qualify from. He was on the field against Croatia (and we still got beat 3-2). I take your point, but he has, you can see with that Liverpool team, as Henry says, you can see this shape that, if they get Gareth Barry, it just falls into place. That's it, they're set up.
NC: I just wonder how many teams in the last European championships would have had Gareth Barry in them, certainly those that finished in the last eight?
HW: But what we saw in the Euros was how many teams were playing almost 4-2-3-1. Almost with two holding players, and Gareth Barry is an outstanding holding player who can also deliver the old good free kick and corner. I think he's terrific. Having said that I don't think he was Villa's best player last season. I thought Ashley Young was.
BW: He was the only player to play in all England's games last season.
HW: I wouldn't hold that against him.
MS: I was going to say.
BW: That's cut his value.
MS: That's not exactly the ringing endorsement it will sound like.
NC: Aston Villa don't know what they're doing by the sounds of it.
BW: Do you think he'll go?
NC: Not now. Not with all this going on I wouldn't have thought so. And, as you say, Aston Villa need to get their plans in order for the coming season and O'Neil isn't a man to be messed about too much is he.
MS: I don't think they've got the money.
BW: But what's Benitez do. Does he just swallow this and say "okay then we'll just get on with something else"? There has to be a problem with Benitez and...
NC: There seems to be constantly at odds and constant, they're always seems to be a moan from Benitez, you know, and he's spent a lot of money, he's had a lot of time and he's come nowhere near winning the Premiership title, although he's been superb in Europe, he's come nowhere near winning the Premiership title. So a lot of this posturing, complaining, controversy sometimes takes the spotlight away from what is actually happening on the pitch which in the Premier League stakes has not been great.
HW: But Alonso looks very interesting in all of this because Benitez has effectively said "well we're quite happy to sell you to Juventus if we get Barry in", but Liverpool fans from most reports are being incredibly supportive of Alonso. So if Barry doesn't come and Alonso stays and starts alongside Mascherano in midfield, it'll be interesting to see what sort of mood he's in knowing that the manager wanted him out?
BW: Wanted him out as well, yeah. Also, Barry's mood at Villa with the relationship with MoN of course. It's like Ronaldo with the fans; how will Villa fans react to Barry. They already started to boo him.
MS: well they booed him then they cheered him didn't they. They booed him and then they changed their minds when they thought he might stay so it's all a bit like that.
HW: I think MoN is one of those managers who will work on Barry if he does stay and Barry will have a good season.
NC: Barry is a very different character as well. He is a very unassuming sort of type. I don't think Villa fans will turn against him. I see he's been slightly much a pawn in a game rather than someone who’s driven this.
BW: Yes absolutely.
MS: And also, if he takes a step back and looks at it, you know, Liverpool have had their chance. Keep hankering after this "I want to move to Liverpool". Well Liverpool have got their chance. If they really want you, now's the time.
BW: The fee's £18m and that's it.
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