Rotation

[RPAS]

If we sign Barry or Dowling or even no one for the left it won't make a blind bit of difference if we rotate as much as we've done in previous years. We've yet to have a settled back 4; midfield or forward line under Rafa; I hope to Christ we've seen the end of the worst of it and that this season its Torres & Keane for every premiership game; a settled midfield anchored by Mascherano and driven by Gerrard and a settled back 4 in front of Pepe.

[Mattshark]

We never rotated anymore than anyone else. We just lacked enough depth, playing the same players every game throughout the season will not help us, we'll just have knackered players.

[rage]

its not just the rotation of players when one player is rested whilst another takes his place for a game. its the rotation of formations and playing players in different positions in different formations that is both a rafa trait and a factor in our failure to compete.

we hit form with a stable formation when the same players play the same roles whenever they're on the pitch. **** knows what'll happen to our stability from the end of last year with keane arriving and maybe even barry/downing. more possibilities more confusion and our players playing like complete strangers as far as i'm concerned.

[Bari]

its not just the rotation of players when one player is rested whilst another takes his place for a game. its the rotation of formations and playing players in different positions in different formations that is both a rafa trait and a factor in our failure to compete.

we hit form with a stable formation when the same players play the same roles whenever they're on the pitch. **** knows what'll happen to our stability from the end of last year with keane arriving and maybe even barry/downing. more possibilities more confusion and our players playing like complete strangers as far as i'm concerned.

I have been banging on about this to my mates for the last 6 months, finally someone that I can agree with.

[MrMichael]

Not this one again

Shall we have a zonal marking thread too?

Rotation is a red herring, the issue is far more that which Rage points out above, the chopping and changing of formations and tactics. Our main problem seems to me to be that Rafa sets out his teams too often with a plan in mind to counter an inferior opposition team, rather than playing to our own plan. Of course we always have to make allowances or adjustments for an opposition, but too often in past seasons we've tried to counter an opposition in the way we've setup for a game, thus allowing them to play in their preferred style, rather than making them counter us. In doing this we also end up having far too many players acting as square pegs in round holes.

Towards the end of last season it was starting to look like we'd settled on a formation and system that allowed the majority of our best players to play in their best positions and allowed us some genuine fluidity and style which we were much better for having - 4-2-3-1... and then we appear to have bought players this summer (primarily Keane) who don't really fit in that. I was really hoping we'd see some sort of obvious plan for how Keane was going to fit into that system from the off this year, instead it all seems a bit up in the air and like we're once again going to figure it out as we go along. This may work itself out gradually, but I just hope we don't end up losing too many points in the meantime

[Bari]

Not this one again

Shall we have a zonal marking thread too?

Rotation is a red herring, the issue is far more that which Rage points out above, the chopping and changing of formations and tactics. Our main problem seems to me to be that Rafa sets out his teams too often with a plan in mind to counter an inferior opposition team, rather than playing to our own plan. Of course we always have to make allowances or adjustments for an opposition, but too often in past seasons we've tried to counter an opposition in the way we've setup for a game, thus allowing them to play in their preferred style, rather than making them counter us. In doing this we also end up having far too many players acting as square pegs in round holes.

Towards the end of last season it was starting to look like we'd settled on a formation and system that allowed the majority of our best players to play in their best positions and allowed us some genuine fluidity and style which we were much better for having - 4-2-3-1... and then we appear to have bought players this summer (primarily Keane) who don't really fit in that. I was really hoping we'd see some sort of obvious plan for how Keane was going to fit into that system from the off this year, instead it all seems a bit up in the air and like we're once again going to figure it out as we go along. This may work itself out gradually, but I just hope we don't end up losing too many points in the meantime

Spot on 2 great posts

[Parm]

If we sign Barry or Dowling or even no one for the left it won't make a blind bit of difference if we rotate as much as we've done in previous years. We've yet to have a settled back 4; midfield or forward line under Rafa; I hope to Christ we've seen the end of the worst of it and that this season its Torres & Keane for every premiership game; a settled midfield anchored by Mascherano and driven by Gerrard and a settled back 4 in front of Pepe.

wasnt he off big brother a couple of years ago?

[Rashid]

I don't think Reina, Carragher, Mascherano, Alonso, Gerrard, Torres, Kuyt, Arbeloa and Dossenna will be rotated much, the former 8 of that list were not rotated much last season.

[calvoboy]

Rotation is a red herring, the issue is far more that which Rage points out above, the chopping and changing of formations and tactics. Our main problem seems to me to be that Rafa sets out his teams too often with a plan in mind to counter an inferior opposition team, rather than playing to our own plan. Of course we always have to make allowances or adjustments for an opposition, but too often in past seasons we've tried to counter an opposition in the way we've setup for a game, thus allowing them to play in their preferred style, rather than making them counter us. In doing this we also end up having far too many players acting as square pegs in round holes.

Spot on - I think he still overestimates the lesser teams in the premiership. In spain even the bottom clubs have a variety of tactical approaches and are very tactically aware during the game. Over here, the bottom clubs are more likely to park everyone behind the ball and pray for a bit of luck. You just need to pick your best attacking team and go at them.

[dww]

Rotation is a red herring, the issue is far more that which Rage points out above, the chopping and changing of formations and tactics. Our main problem seems to me to be that Rafa sets out his teams too often with a plan in mind to counter an inferior opposition team, rather than playing to our own plan. Of course we always have to make allowances or adjustments for an opposition, but too often in past seasons we've tried to counter an opposition in the way we've setup for a game, thus allowing them to play in their preferred style, rather than making them counter us. In doing this we also end up having far too many players acting as square pegs in round holes.

I actually didn't think we changed formation all that often last season. Other than early on when Torres had niggling injuries and was in and out of the team, which for me pretty much forced a change. We switched formation mid season I remember from a 4-4-2 with Mascher-Gerrard in the middle to the 4-2-3-1 you talked of.

I also think that when we did (notably the 3-5-2 in the Reading horror show) it was arguable we were aiming to apply our strengths - i.e. through the middle and deep crossing for Crouch and neglected their (the wings). I do to some degree think there is valid criticism that at times we have in order to use a plan put people in positions they are not well suited to.

I have to say though that I think there is an element that it is hard to work Gerrard into a system. I thought there was a good solution for games against weaker opposition found last season with him behind the striker. However the problem is he isn't good with his back to goal and if the other team has a solid midfield defense he drops too deep and we end up playing long low percentage balls.