Liverpool v Boro match thread

[MrMichael]

Kuyt wasn't our best midfielder, Gerrard was. E.g. if Kuyt did was Gerrard did yesterday you would hail him as MOM. Kuyt is ****e (but "works hard") and your expectations of him are lower hence why his ****eness is tolerated.

Not in the game I saw, Gerrard was utterly anonymous for 80 minutes, looked very jaded. He and Xabi do not play well together in a midfield 2, we've seen it for several seasons now. Sure, at the end he did his superstar turn, but overall he had a poor game by his admittedly very high standards. I rate Gerrard much higher than Kuyt, as every sane person in the world does, but "if Kuyt had done what Gerrard did" over the 90 minutes I most certainly wouldn't have had him as MoM, because I didn't have Gerrard as it. I did have Kuyt as our second best performer in Morse's thread above this though, on the basis of what he did in the game alone, not on my overall opinion of his talent as a footballer.

Yes, we need someone else in the position Kuyt is now playing, yes the man is not a right winger at all, but he is not "****e" imo, and he most definitely was not at fault for the team's level of performance in yesterdays game. My expectations of him are the same as of any LFC player, for them to give 100% every time they pull on the red shirt whatever job they are asked to do by the manager, if he does that I don't have to think he's ultimately good enough, but I do have more respect for him for doing so than to simply label him as "****e" no matter what, and then use him as a convenient scapegoat for ills he is not at all responsible for.

[Rashid]

Not in the game I saw, Gerrard was utterly anonymous for 80 minutes, looked very jaded. He and Xabi do not play well together in a midfield 2, we've seen it for several seasons now. Sure, at the end he did his superstar turn, but overall he had a poor game by his admittedly very high standards. I rate Gerrard much higher than Kuyt, as every sane person in the world does, but "if Kuyt had done what Gerrard did" over the 90 minutes I most certainly wouldn't have had him as MoM, because I didn't have Gerrard as it. I did have Kuyt as our second best performer in Morse's thread above this though, on the basis of what he did in the game alone, not on my overall opinion of his talent as a footballer.

Yes, we need someone else in the position Kuyt is now playing, yes the man is not a right winger at all, but he is not "****e" imo, and he most definitely was not at fault for the team's level of performance in yesterdays game.

When Sissoko was out 2 seasons ago, we had Gerrard and Alonso give us a 13 game winning streak with no goals conceded.

Kuyt isn't at fault for the performance, but he plays in Leo Messi and Ronaldo's position - we are Liverpool not Newcastle - we can do better than this.

[MrMichael]

sorry, edited the above to explain myself better.

When Sissoko was out 2 seasons ago, we had Gerrard and Alonso give us a 13 game winning streak with no goals conceded.

Kuyt isn't at fault for the performance, but he plays in Leo Messi and Ronaldo's position - we are Liverpool not Newcastle - we can do better than this.

There, you said something I agree with, knew it would happen eventually.

Very few players stand up to comparison with the best in the world. Kuyt isn;t responsible for not being Ronaldo or Messi, he is what he is, and at times has shown he can be a match winner at the highest level. That Arsenal game last year for example. We could do better in that position, I'm not sure how we can right now, but what I'm struggling to understand is why people instantly jump to criticise this particular player after every single sodding game where we don't play glorious footy and win 5-0, when by your own admission in the current context, he wasn't responsible for the overall lacklustre performance.

I'm not being very coherent as I've just finished a 10 hour night shift, but I really believe that people have it in for he lad now whatever he does, and their unhappyness with the overall shape of the squad in terms of lacking quality wide options translates into blindly having a go at a man who is actually working his bollocks off to do a job for us there.

And Gerrard/Alonso has not looked right for ages in my opinion.

[RedReet]

Kuyt wasn't our best midfielder, Gerrard was. E.g. if Kuyt did was Gerrard did yesterday you would hail him as MOM. Kuyt is ****e (but "works hard") and your expectations of him are lower hence why his ****eness is tolerated.

Kuyt was our most composed and intelligent player yesterday. Not once did he lump a blind ball into the air, he was always looking to keep possession, and always played the simple ball if nothing else was on. He always made himself available, however more often than not, the ball completely bypassed him as either Carra or Arbeola hoofed it forward.

How anyone can criticise him after his performance yesterday is beyond me.

Oh, and he hit the only decent corner for us all day.

Gerrard was poor for 80 minutes, you could tell he wasn’t fit. He got caught in possession a few too many times and kept looking for fancy passes and dinks instead of keeping it simple.

[MrMichael]

Kuyt was our most composed and intelligent player yesterday. Not once did he lump a blind ball into the air, he was always looking to keep possession, and always played the simple ball if nothing else was on. He always made himself available, however more often than not, the ball completely bypassed him as either Carra or Arbeola hoofed it forward.

How anyone can criticise him after his performance yesterday is beyond me.

Oh, and he hit the only decent corner for us all day.

Gerrard was poor for 80 minutes, you could tell he wasn’t fit. He got caught in possession a few too many times and kept looking for fancy passes and dinks instead of keeping it simple.

Hallelujah, so there is someone on here who saw the same game I did.

[slimbimjim]

It's funny, but whenever I see Kuyt I don't think he's that bad at all. He is a bloody good crosser of the ball and his he rarely gives the ball away. He also delivers some great passes into the area and is always there.

No he isn't a right winger but I think he would make a good central midfielder and hopefully Rafa will put him up front when the time is right.

[RedReet]

Hallelujah, so there is someone on here who saw the same game I did.

I’m sure if anyone watched the match again and kept an eye on Kuyt, they would know what we are talking about.

To put his performance into perspective, Benni who had about 65 minutes swapping positions with Kuyt, had three at most four touches, losing the ball every time. Babel had 30 minutes doing the same, had two touches, once standing on the ball, the other giving possession away too easily.

Over the 98 minutes played, Kuyt miscontrolled one ball and put in one poor cross in under pressure. The rest of his game was flawless. Behind Xabi, he probably had more touches than anyone else in the team and without him I think it could have been a very different result.

Having watched the match again, I also thought Xabi was a lot better than people realised. He made some high profile mistakes (losing the ball for the goal, corners etc.) and that’s what stuck in peoples mind, but he did make some decent interceptions throughout the game and was one of the few players actually looking the ball and trying to make something happen. He also hit the cross that deflected to Carra for the goal and chipped in the ball that Keane laid off to Gerrard.

[Nicey]

Bang on ... anybody with half a footballing brain agrees with you, half of these muppets dont even watch the game

[Exiled_red]

I’m sure if anyone watched the match again and kept an eye on Kuyt, they would know what we are talking about.

To put his performance into perspective, Benni who had about 65 minutes swapping positions with Kuyt, had three at most four touches, losing the ball every time. Babel had 30 minutes doing the same, had two touches, once standing on the ball, the other giving possession away too easily.

Over the 98 minutes played, Kuyt miscontrolled one ball and put in one poor cross in under pressure. The rest of his game was flawless. Behind Xabi, he probably had more touches than anyone else in the team and without him I think it could have been a very different result.

Having watched the match again, I also thought Xabi was a lot better than people realised. He made some high profile mistakes (losing the ball for the goal, corners etc.) and that’s what stuck in peoples mind, but he did make some decent interceptions throughout the game and was one of the few players actually looking the ball and trying to make something happen. He also hit the cross that deflected to Carra for the goal and chipped in the ball that Keane laid off to Gerrard.

Good post

I'm not sure where I stand on Kuyt, I'm not one of the Kuyt bashers, but I'm not a staunch defender of him either. I agree that he played better than people give him credit for in terms of keeping possesion and his involvement in play and his work rate.

But in the set-up we've played in the last couple of games we've needed a wide player who will drive forward with the ball and take people on, which Kuyt isn't and we haven't had anyone available who is, which is partly why his performances have been critisised.

I think if we had a player in the team on the opposite side driving forward and taking people on with pace then, that would take the spot-light off Kuyt for what he isn't and people might appreciate what he offers.

[RedReet]

Good post

I'm not sure where I stand on Kuyt, I'm not one of the Kuyt bashers, but I'm not a staunch defender of him either. I agree that he played better than people give him credit for in terms of keeping possesion and his involvement in play and his work rate.

But in the set-up we've played in the last couple of games we've needed a wide player who will drive forward with the ball and take people on, which Kuyt isn't and we haven't had anyone available who is, which is partly why his performances have been critisised.

I think if we had a player in the team on the opposite side driving forward and taking people on with pace then, that would take the spot-light off Kuyt for what he isn't and people might appreciate what he offers.

Exactly. If we had that type of player down the left, we’d have great balance. Everyone knows what Kuyt’s strengths are and skinning defenders with skill and pace isn’t one of them. But what he does offer is great movement and great support for the forwards. Nando loves to run wide and stretch the defence, and more often than not, Kuyt busts a lung to get in the centre whenever he does.

It’s obvious that the 4-2-3-1 formation suited him better than 4-4-2, but he’s still more than useful at RM.

With Ashley Young down the left, I think Kuyt will be key to us getting any points at Villa Park on Saturday.