Standard Liege - Match thread

[MrMichael]

****ing trolls.

Could be worse I guess. They could be goblins. I hate goblins

In response to the other comments.....

There's a blatant difference for me between those who tend to hold "challenging" (which usually manifests itself as negative) opinions but articulate them sensibly and debate them fully and without recourse to derogatory and purely inflammatory posting, and those who just take the piss and don't deserve to be called supporters. The first can add something to the debate on a forum like this, as long as they remain respectful of the views of others who respond in a sane manner, Although occasionally their posts can inspire frustration, with a bit of effort on all sides our aim should always be to allow their voices to be heard the same as any other persons.

The second simply bring the tone of the whole place down and add absolutely nothing constructive to anything, Ultimately this is a forum for liverpool supporters, and is run as a labour of love, not profit (hell, you've just got to look at the donations bar to see that, lol). That means we're not going to let people who have no intention of understanding what supporting a club like ours is about, or who are simply wums here on their latest trolling escapade, continue to enjoy the privilege to freely post here unchecked.

As such, "sackparry" has just been, errrrr, sacked.

[Fierce]

Fierce for Mod!

Aww shucks

[sorry about the lack of text updates btw - completely forgot once I'd had a few ciders]

One of their players went over on the edge of the box and the referee waived play on. Their manager got upset and was ranting at Rafa. Rafa responded with th einternational sign for 'your player is a diving ****bag' which wasn't received well (although it happened to be true). For the next few minutes their boss kept trying to rile Rafa and get in his personal space. After than one of our player went down and their manager retaliated with further international sign language.

No one would have cared if it hadn't been the most entertaining thing to happen all match (until the goal maybe).

Thanks mate, and dont worry, you weren't the only one that TOTALLY AND UTTERLY LET ME DOWN IN MY HOUR OF NEED AND DIDN'T HELP ME OUT AT ALL BECAUSE YOU'RE HORRID

I got 7 texts from a mate, and all each one said, albeit with slight differences, was "We're sh*t" "We're out" etc etc. Which was helpful

Could be worse I guess. They could be goblins. I hate goblins

In response to the other comments.....

There's a blatant difference for me between those who tend to hold "challenging" (which usually manifests itself as negative) opinions but articulate them sensibly and debate them fully and without recourse to derogatory and purely inflammatory posting, and those who just take the piss and don't deserve to be called supporters. The first can add something to the debate on a forum like this, as long as they remain respectful of the views of others who respond in a sane manner, Although occasionally their posts can inspire frustration, with a bit of effort on all sides our aim should always be to allow their voices to be heard the same as any other persons.

The second simply bring the tone of the whole place down and add absolutely nothing constructive to anything, Ultimately this is a forum for liverpool supporters, and is run as a labour of love, not profit (hell, you've just got to look at the donations bar to see that, lol). That means we're not going to let people who have no intention of understanding what supporting a club like ours is about, or who are simply wums here on their latest trolling escapade, continue to enjoy the privilege to freely post here unchecked.

As such, "sackparry" has just been, errrrr, sacked.

Fierce for mod!

[Rashid]

Whilst I disagree on the writers opinion of Aurelio and Skrtel, I do think a lot of this article is the truth especially about the playing side of things.

Rafa's tinkering does Liverpool few favours

By Peter Bills
Thursday, 28 August 2008

Benitez barks orders from the sidelines last night

Given the fact that at times the opposition gave a commendable portrait of a lot of kids having a kick about in the park, you’d have expected Liverpool to lord it over the strictly limited Belgians of Standard Liege in Wednesday night’s qualifier for the Champions League.

Anfield, that great old bastion of the north that deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Hadrian’s Wall for its usual impenetrability, packed its defences and awaited the floodtide of goals. It was still waiting as extra time began.

If you remember, too, that this is Rafael Benitez’s fourth season in charge at Liverpool, you would surely anticipate the performance of a smoothly oiled machine, the opportunity to admire a carefully constructed outfit that oozed class, understanding, poise and purpose.

But then there was Liverpool. What we might call a rag-tag-bobtail of a team struggled for almost 120 minutes to quel Standard’s pacy breakouts, their direct, no-nonsense approach and break down their defending in numbers. Had they possessed an iota of composure in front of goal, had they greeted scoring chances with some degree of personal control rather than rushing at them like children at their Christmas presents, then Liverpool’s struggles could have been so much worse. In the end, Dirk Kuyt’s single goal two minutes from the end of extra time dragged Liverpool through, thoroughly unconvincingly.

You can tell the trouble with Liverpool just by watching Rafa Benitez. He’s that maddening combination of the control freak and the tinkerer. He can’t leave the players to get on with it themselves; he’s shouting, waving, gesticulating, re-arranging, changing formations, organising, urging and cajoling the whole time. And when he isn’t doing all that he’s furiously making notes, ready to baffle and bewilder his players with even more technicalities during the half time interval.

Constant tinkering with a team: it’s the death knell for most top clubs. The manager who can’t settle on a regular formula, an established style is a menace to his own club. He’s forever adjusting, moving, re-organising – he’s never satisfied in his own mind with his formations so how can his players feel settled?

And the killing reality from so ordinary and unconvincing a display was that Liverpool looked a shambles for the most part. Arbeloa and Aurelio were short of the class needed at this level: Skyrtel is efficient but hardly deadly. Yet it was the balance of Benitez’s side that looked so hopelessly awry. Three front men were employed in Torres, Kuyt and the surely wildly over priced Keane at £20m, albeit with Kuyt pushed out wide, yet there was seldom any sign of cohesion, understanding or collective purpose.

For all his apparent expertise, Benitez seems to fail to understand essential elements of his business. Teamwork, cohesion, the ability to fit together component parts for the greater good of the side as a whole are key requirements of any successful manager. Splashing £54m on three strikers is all very well but it is rarely the criterion for success in management. Will they gel as a unit, will they settle and form a proper understanding?

The great managers have always understood that building a proper unit is the key to ultimate triumph. But right now, it looks like Rafa Benitez’s Liverpool is as far away from enjoying a settled team as the day the Spaniard walked through the Shankly Gates at Liverpool for the first time.

As before, the two Englishmen Gerrard and Carragher provide the bedrock of this side. Take them out and an even greater hole would exist. But even amidst their presence, there remains the lack of a commanding world class central defender, another visionary midfielder of undisputed quality to take the pressure off Gerrard and a wide man of purpose. Benayoun flitted in and out of this match like a butterfly in a summer park.

There is no dispute that quality players exist at Liverpool. But what is equally undeniable is that there appears to be no proper structure, no true and established foundation and playing formation in which they can excel.

Already, the storm clouds may be gathering above Anfield and the season is only a couple of weeks old.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/rafas-tinkering-does-liverpool-few-favours-911684.html

[rage]

I get annoyed as the next man about Rashid, but as someone else said at least he is a proper Liverpool fan and whilst he's a bit of a prick, he does know his stuff and contributes intelligently, whilst maybe over negatively

Sackparry is just a fan of another team who's having a merry old time at the expense of the rest of us. IMO, he does nothing more than antagonise.
Any chance you could ban him?!

Rage and Sarb fall somewhere inbetween the 2 I think, so its ok, they can stay



On another note, what happened with the 2 managers? I didn't get to see the game, but it looked like after the ball was put out, we continued to play whilst they were expecting the ball back. That right?!

been computerless whilst in belfast, watched this awful game. we have yet to play well at all this season, surely its gotta get better soon. this game will go down in est rage history as dirk kuyts 12 million pound reprieve.

tell u what though, the boy either needs to play right attacker in a 4231 or a second striker in a 442 or even 4231. sticking him out in the right of a 442 to accommodate keane clearly isn't working for either of 'em.

no one cares how we get there, just as long as we're there

[Konstro]

If you remember, too, that this is Rafael Benitez’s fourth season in charge at Liverpool, you would surely anticipate the performance of a smoothly oiled machine, the opportunity to admire a carefully constructed outfit that oozed class, understanding, poise and purpose.



Taken out of Independent article. This is what I love about journos. Knowing football better than most of managers than ****ing up simple maths.


And what is his point about tinkering if 7 players started in every game so far and half of the changes that Rafa made were forced by injuries.

Let`s just hope that we will start to play better soon

[rage]

If you remember, too, that this is Rafael Benitez’s fourth season in charge at Liverpool, you would surely anticipate the performance of a smoothly oiled machine, the opportunity to admire a carefully constructed outfit that oozed class, understanding, poise and purpose.



Taken out of Independent article. This is what I love about journos. Knowing football better than most of managers than ****ing up simple maths.


And what is his point about tinkering if 7 players started in every game so far and half of the changes that Rafa made were forced by injuries.

Let`s just hope that we will start to play better soon

4th season i thought this was his 5th season?

[dww]

If you remember, too, that this is Rafael Benitez’s fourth season in charge at Liverpool, you would surely anticipate the performance of a smoothly oiled machine, the opportunity to admire a carefully constructed outfit that oozed class, understanding, poise and purpose.



Taken out of Independent article. This is what I love about journos. Knowing football better than most of managers than ****ing up simple maths.


And what is his point about tinkering if 7 players started in every game so far and half of the changes that Rafa made were forced by injuries.

Let`s just hope that we will start to play better soon

It is largely a poor article IMO. We have this season consistently played as you point out a fairly settled team barring injuries and have stuck to a 4-4-2 formation for better or worse.

The observation of Rafa "shouting, waving, gesticulating, re-arranging, changing formations, organising, urging and cajoling the whole time" does have some validity to it (except the bit about formations which is cheap lazy journalism). However when a team is playing badly what would you expect from a manager - if he sat and took it then he the author would probably have criticised him for not looking bothered enough. I would say it is impossible to distinguish cause from effect in this case and to try and imply that somehow we are in crisis despite winning all of the league matches and cup ties so far seems a bit odd.

That said we are playing awfully and players for whatever reason are not playing with fluency, confidence or freedom and Rafa as manager has to take responsibility for that.