Villa (a) Post Match Thread

[Sarb]

On paper Villa away is probably a tough game but they were there for the taking today and we failed to go for it from the outset. We set off with a defensive mindset looking for a point and to be honest that's the problem and the reason we can't challenge for the title with Rafa IMO. He's become very defensive minded and thinks too much.

The substitutions were shocking today, the starting line-up was ridiculous and straight away it was "we're going for a draw". If you want to win the title you have to try and win every game from the outset.

Since 2004-05 we have failed to address our problem of a lack of width. If people say we don't need wingers that's bollocks. We're playing square pegs in round holes. I'm not convinced on Reira but at least he is a winger. When Torres got injured we bought on Ngog, then Kuyt and Keane both went off. Sends out the wrong signals

Yeah we're joint top but that's 2 points lost today

[Sarb]

What I find most infuriating even when we are drawing or losing, is Rafa screaming at them to get back into position.

Compact, Compact, Compact

[Leyton388]

The fact is we need wingers today has proved that further. Dosenna was quality today when he attacked and his crossing was good. Imagine how good he would be overlapping a quality winger and supporting the front players. Same for the other side too. We are too direct 99% of the times and when we dont go through the middle Alonso is playing a long ball.

[Exiled_red]

well i am after calming down at this stage...it is true that you can't win every game....

i do feel though that we should have stuck to the 4-2-3-1 formation since last season to be honest....we were flying there for a good few games from feb/mar onwards last season and now it seems that we are trying to fit a system into our players as opposed to the other way around....

put it this way - i feel that had we started today with...

---------------------REINA----------------------

ARBELOA----CARRAGHER---SKRTEL------DOSSENA

-----------MASCHERANO----ALONSO-------------

KUYT----------------KEANE---------------BABEL

--------------------TORRES---------------------

Then we would have won the match to be honest....

ah well......we are still unbeaten and also are going to click and get better. Also, if stevie was there today, then we'd have won in my opinion. A lot of people say that we shouldn't rely on stevie and el nino so much but EVERY team has star players that if you take out of the team, then the team isn't as good. As somebody pointed out, take Drogba, Ronaldo, Fabregas out of their teams, then these teams are nowhere near as effective..... that is why they are called star players....

I do feel that Parry and the Yanks could be waiting for the fans to turn on rafa though - as another poster pointed out - so i do feel that this season is win or bust for Benitez - note how there is no mention of a new contract for rafa...

with regard to reira - well i'm not so sure that he is the answer tbh. I watced a lot of spanish football last season and to be honest - Reira isn't even as good as Mark Gonzalez in La Liga - perhaps he will adapt more to the Prem but i'm still not sure to be honest. Rafa seems to like playing forwards on the wings as Keane and Kuyt played there today. You can see the reasons - basically, they can both do jobs there but also when we do attack down a wing, then the forward on the other wing gets into the far post area of the box and you essentially have an extra forward. However, we had a great player for this position but he is no longer at the club - Sinama Pongolle was the perfect player to play on either the left or right wing as a 'high-up winger' in my view..... big pity we sold him (plus he scored on his Atletico debut tonight!)

I agree with alot of that especially about the system and the team we should have played.

I have to say that I'm not keen on playing strikers out wide on the wings I can see the thinking you are suggesting (about the extra player in the box) but my opinion has always been that if you create more chances you have a better chance of scoring goals. So from that way of thinking I would rather have quality wide players creating alot of chances rather than having strikers play out of position creating fewer chances but having an extra player in the box.

That said I think Pongolle would have made a decent winger in the current system we play, he had pace, decent control and caused problems for defenders, my one concern would have been how lightweight he was, but I bever really remember that being too much of a problem

[Le Chef]

To be fair to Alonso today, he had no one to pass to ahead of him, but he looks too lethargic most of the time.

[Shaggy]

Didn't think the reaction here would be quite so hysterical. Perhaps I should've known better.

It wasn't good but IMO it was an improvement on the other night against a much stronger side and away from home. Villa never really looked like scoring and - although we didn't either - I felt we passed the ball reasonably well until 'the final pass'. Think we kept it much better than we had done thus far.

[Leyton388]

Anyone think Barry would be a good signing for us As alonso was a bit slow today?

[calvoboy]

I think since 1998 when we started on this "foreign tactician" approach - our football has been by in large ale house. Now I am getting older and maybe I miss our glory years but this brand of football has me distraught. Sorry.

I agree with you. If we are never going to win the league then I'd rather watch us playing the attacking football that we had under Evans. We played some fantastic stuff then and finished top four every year. These days he'd still be manager with the league record he had, but without Champions League football for fourth place in those days he was on his way.

The only justification for our current approach of safety first is if it produces winning football. That said, I do think Rafa's style, when it works, is better than Houllier's. At our best under Rafa we don't give the opposition a kick, passing the ball well and keeping possession, and cruising to victory. It just hasn't happened anywhere near consistently enough.

Thing is, I don't mind debating/discussing this with you. Despite the reputation you have on this and other forums, I can always see where you are coming from, even if you do sometimes rub people up the wrong way with the forthright way in which you put your opinions across. No-one can deny that you want us to be succesful. You want the same as the rest of us, and we're all entitled to our own opinion about how we are going to achieve No.19 in the shortest possible time. I haven't got the time to debate it with some WUM rival fan though who is only interested in coming on here to try and get some bites with some very poor bait.

[Vermilion]

Didn't think the reaction here would be quite so hysterical. Perhaps I should've known better.

It wasn't good but IMO it was an improvement on the other night against a much stronger side and away from home. Villa never really looked like scoring and - although we didn't either - I felt we passed the ball reasonably well until 'the final pass'. Think we kept it much better than we had done thus far.

[badpiggy]

Didn't think the reaction here would be quite so hysterical. Perhaps I should've known better.

It wasn't good but IMO it was an improvement on the other night against a much stronger side and away from home. Villa never really looked like scoring and - although we didn't either - I felt we passed the ball reasonably well until 'the final pass'. Think we kept it much better than we had done thus far.

fair play shaggy. exactly my thoughts. rafas substitutions will often seem strange but it just goes to show that he definitely has a method and plan whether we get it or not.

[El Jefecito]

didn't even bother to drag my sorry arse out of bed to watch this match at the pub. reason? because i've come to the conclusion its more entertaining to count the grains of rice in an average packet of uncle bens or pluck the pubes from my ball sack whilst receiting the lords prayer than watch the **** we're consistently being served up.

10 Seasons of negative football overseen by two grand chess masters of the foreign persuasion have finally taken their toll.

Its ****.

Playing the foreign card. :disgust:

[Exiled_red]

Anyone think Barry would be a good signing for us As alonso was a bit slow today?

I didn't think Barry played any better than Alonso today, I thought they both put in average performances

[willa1975]

I thought we'd be lucky to get a point today. Villa are a good side, we've been positively awful, and we were away from home with a fired-up Villa crowd. Especially after Torres went off injured, it was going to be a challenge for us.

Things I thought were positive about today--at least in spells, we played some decent football. Keane got more involved after Torres went off, which is encouraging, but perhaps worrisome as it raises the question of whether or not Keane and Torres can form an effective partnership. I thought Keane and N'gog linked up better today than I've seen Keane and Torres do, and this was N'gog's first ever Premiership game, if I'm not mistaken. I'm glad to have Mascherano back, and Dossena and Skrtel both played well.

I was, however, disappointed by Rafa's use of substitutions. I agree with the others about Babel. He at least should have been brought on towards the end instead of Aurelio, and I don't think Keane should have been taken off. If we had any ambition of winning, the player most likely to score was Keane. Moreover, since Villa were starting to push forward, we would have done better to bring on someone with the pace to present some danger on the counterattack. Benayoun didn't offer that. And, if we were simply playing for the draw, he doesn't offer anything as a defender, either.

Another worrying thing...it doesn't seem clear what Rafa wants to do with this Liverpool side. He clearly has a jones for central midfielders...if he had his way, even without selling Alonso we'd have Barry now, and we'd be playing 4-4-2? Makes no sense whatsoever. And, the 4-2-3-1 that worked fairly well for us last season...that's gone and here we are once again fumbling about trying to find a formation/lineup that works. This shouldn't be, especially as we've only got two new players in the starting 11, and this is now Rafa's 5th season in charge. It's ridiculous that this happens every ****ing year. I know Rafa knows a hell of a lot more about football than I do, but is he being too smart for his own (and the team's) good?

That being said, we've got as many points as anyone after the first 3 games, so the sky isn't exactly falling down. But it will be quite worrisome if we don't make any progress this season. I share the doubts of many on here that we simply won't win the league under Rafa, but at the same time I'm doubtful that another manager would want to tolerate the two muppets who currently own our club.

I just might pledge 5000 pounds to ShareLiverpoolFC...it's a lot of money, but I could afford it.

[Tee]

Our approach to games is just too cautious and our play is no way fluid enough. Pass and move used to be the LIverpool groove it seems.

[Exiled_red]

I still stick with we should have brough El Zhar on, all our goals this season have come when he's been on the pitch