Liverpool v Stoke match thread

[Craig_H]

Sorry guys but at some stage we have to stop passing off these continuous failures to beat **** teams in the league as mere 'blips' that 'happen every team' and so on, as if they are somehow a rarity not in keeping with the rest of our season or our results under Rafa. I'm not saying sack Rafa or anything like it but it is clear, abundantly so, that we are at our best playing top teams who come out and attack us because fundamentally we are set up not to concede and exploit opposition gaps; when it comes to taking the game to another side and earning the win on the back of our own positivity and craft, we are almost always found woefully lacking. In this sense how we play is a clear reflection of the attitude, mindset and beliefs of the manager, so absolving him of blame because he's not out there to score himself etc. is highly disingenuous as a defence against the 'sack Rafa brigade'; almost as bad as some of the arguments used by the 'other side' in this rapidly emerging divide among our support.

Taken in isolation, today's result is by no means a total disaster, but in the context of the persistent pattern under Rafa, I frankly find it wholly depressing.

The Man U bubble wobbled in Europe in midweek, it burst a bit today and I hope it gets reinflated very soon, else another season's hopes will ebb away.

If today WAS just a one-off, then i wouldnt be so annoyed. But today could've easily happened against Boro or Liege too. Out of our 3 home games so far, we've only played well in one of them and the performances in the other two games are ones which will see us fail to win more often than not.

[DannyMan2006]

I would like to add to this that when Arsenal went a goal behind they took 10 minutes to get TWO passed bolton with penetrative football when Bolton parked the bus. Then they eased the rest of the game.

Benny and Babel should have been on from the start!

But then Fulham parked the bus against Arsenal and they won the game. Can't win them all.

Today we created three clear chances that shold have gone in. Two from Keane and one from the head of Torres. Easy chances from 8 yards out or less. These should be goals. A side from them we had god knows how many where a bit of individual brilliance created a chance were at times they have found the net. Then there was countless deflected chances. A disallowed goal. On another day we could have had another 6-0.

But on the other note we spent a lot of money in the summer with the sole purpose of being able to win this type of game. And we haven't. It's easy to see why people are frustrated. Let's see where we are after all the big 4 have played next week. A massive game for us next week and a big game tomorrow.

I'll be pissed off all week, but if we win next week all will be forgotten.

[DannyMan2006]

If today WAS just a one-off, then i wouldnt be so annoyed. But today could've easily happened against Boro or Liege too. Out of our 3 home games so far, we've only played well in one of them and the performances in the other two games are ones which will see us fail to win more often than not.

Yes you would. Against Boro and Liege we didn't create a chance. Today we created loads. There is a difference. The only difference is against Sunderland, Liege and Boro it could be argued we didn't deserve to win and got lucky. Today the luck went the other way.

[DannyMan2006]

Let's see how hard Arsenal, United and Chelsea find it.

There's really no excuse, there's loads of teams who'll 'have a rugby team entrenched around the 18 yard box', what do we do, simply say 'oh well, they put men behind the ball, never mind, a draw will do in that case' ?

I've no doubt the 3 you mentioned will smash Stoke. But then we will probably beat Newcastle, Spurs and fulham in the respective fixtures those tems dropped points to.

[Craig_H]

But as last season showed us, today's type of failure isnt something that happens once in a blue moon. The way we've been playing makes me wonder how many other teams will come to anfield and get points they shouldnt be getting. Boro were so close to getting all three, Stoke got one. Either we improve, or several others will be coming and taking easy points off us at Anfield and as we all know, that wouldnt give us a hope of making a real challenge.

[MrMichael]

What a frustratingly depressing thread. Worse than the game itself

Frustrating game

Felt leaving out Mascherano was understandable, and the more attacking team could deal with Stoke. However was not the case, lots of positives to pick up from the game though, mainly our left sided play which has come on massively with the addition of Riera.

Also, glad to see we were creating space and chances in their half, an on form Keane/Torres would have put away at least one of their numerous chances today, but wasn't to be be the case

IMO, despite this being one of our major banana skins last year where a team parks the bus, i will put this down to our strike force not quite clicking. We didn't lose the ball as much as we would have done last year in this kind of game, this was proved by Stoke having virtually zero chances.

The referee changed the game today undoubtedly, have not been able to see Gerrard's "goal" on tele yet, but if it would have stood the game obviously would have been completely different, but these things happen.

Ahhh well, make up for it by beating the Blue ****e

[Craig_H]

You see the point though Mr Michael, it's all well and good to bemoan things after the event, by January it'll be too late.

We need to rectify the problems NOW, before they end our title bid. I hope you see what i mean. Realising the problems in the new year will be too late, and another league campaign gone.

[MrMichael]

You see the point though Mr Michael, it's all well and good to bemoan things after the event, by January it'll be too late.

We need to rectify the problems NOW, before they end our title bid. I hope you see what i mean. Realising the problems in the new year will be too late, and another league campaign gone.

I do... although, really, us bemaoning things constantly on here isn't exactly going to make a great deal of difference to how the team performs is it?

I think the issue is one of expectations. Personally I don't expect us to have anything other than a very outside chance of the title this year whatever happens. Yeah, so that means we need to win games against teams like Stoke to have any chance, but we also need to win the big games, which is something we haven't done over the last few seasons, and on that score we're up this season already. Sure, we have issues that need to be rectified, primarily imo that the balance of the team doesn't look quite right since the introduction of Keane, but even a team without issues still has the odd shonky result, and the odd game where the ball just won't go in the net. Probably the best lfc team I've ever personally seen lost the cup final in '88 to Wimbledon ffs!

What gets me though is the way people this season seem to be almost reveling in it as soon as our level of performance dips. The fact is that we've got 11 points from our first 5 league games, and are unbeaten in 8 competitive games, if we do sort out some fluidity and improve our performance level we really will be flying. But even if we are I get the feeling there'll still be people waiting for every miscontrolled ball of Kuyt's, or odd-seeming substitution of Rafa's, to have a pop at them, and that's what I find depressing, not the rest of it.

[Craig_H]

I honestly dont think people are revelling in it. That's silly talk, for me. People ARE sick of seeing the same problems and the failure to address them, more so when it costs us silly points.

We play a very slow game and it'll kill our title bid. The biggest frustration is that we ARE good enough to challenge with the squad we have, but the WAY we attack is often blunt and today's result, if you remember Boro, Liege (x2), Sunderland and Villa was coming.

In our 8 competitive games this season, we've failed to hit the net in half of them.

And aside from Brown's og, we've not scored a single goal before the 75th minute.

Today wasnt just a freak blip. If you look at the season so far, it's been coming and unless we combine tempo with width, more teams will come and suffocate a point (or more) out of us at Anfield.

I know it makes no difference whether we bemoan it on here or not, it wont influence what happens in future games. But the same can be said of anything we say here, none of it really makes any difference, not the formation suggestions, tactic ideas or transfer speculation. It's just a place to discuss our thoughts, feelings and vent our frustrations.

Today was devestating for me because it was a great chance to really prove things are different this season. But they werent. The only message that we sent out today is that very little has changed and i can only speak for myself, but that really hurts.

I'm not venting because i'm revelling in today's result, i'm certainly not happy, nor am i wanting to be correct in my fears. But when you build up valid hope and belief, only to see it quashed in such a ridiculous manner (failing to beat a truely terrible team at Anfield), it takes its toll mate.

[Sarb]

I honestly dont think people are revelling in it. That's silly talk, for me. People ARE sick of seeing the same problems and the failure to address them, more so when it costs us silly points.

We play a very slow game and it'll kill our title bid. The biggest frustration is that we ARE good enough to challenge with the squad we have, but the WAY we attack is often blunt and today's result, if you remember Boro, Liege (x2), Sunderland and Villa was coming.

In our 8 competitive games this season, we've failed to hit the net in half of them.

And aside from Brown's og, we've not scored a single goal before the 75th minute.

Today wasnt just a freak blip. If you look at the season so far, it's been coming and unless we combine tempo with width, more teams will come and suffocate a point (or more) out of us at Anfield.

I know it makes no difference whether we bemoan it on here or not, it wont influence what happens in future games. But the same can be said of anything we say here, none of it really makes any difference, not the formation suggestions, tactic ideas or transfer speculation. It's just a place to discuss our thoughts, feelings and vent our frustrations.

Today was devestating for me because it was a great chance to really prove things are different this season. But they werent. The only message that we sent out today is that very little has changed and i can only speak for myself, but that really hurts.

I'm not venting because i'm revelling in today's result, i'm certainly not happy, nor am i wanting to be correct in my fears. But when you build up valid hope and belief, only to see it quashed in such a ridiculous manner (failing to beat a truely terrible team at Anfield), it takes its toll mate.

Personally I didn't build up any hope of winning the title this season. Still don't have a natural wide right player playing and we waste every single corner that comes our way....vital against park the bus teams to put in decent set pieces continuously

Dossena's crossing was woeful yesterday as well. Was good to see Carragher getting forward at times as well yesterday. The team just can't get rid of it's inconsistency and personally don't know the reason

We have only played one decent game in the Prem so far this season...not good enough

[SB]

I do... although, really, us bemaoning things constantly on here isn't exactly going to make a great deal of difference to how the team performs is it?

I think the issue is one of expectations. Personally I don't expect us to have anything other than a very outside chance of the title this year whatever happens. Yeah, so that means we need to win games against teams like Stoke to have any chance, but we also need to win the big games, which is something we haven't done over the last few seasons, and on that score we're up this season already. Sure, we have issues that need to be rectified, primarily imo that the balance of the team doesn't look quite right since the introduction of Keane, but even a team without issues still has the odd shonky result, and the odd game where the ball just won't go in the net. Probably the best lfc team I've ever personally seen lost the cup final in '88 to Wimbledon ffs!

What gets me though is the way people this season seem to be almost reveling in it as soon as our level of performance dips. The fact is that we've got 11 points from our first 5 league games, and are unbeaten in 8 competitive games, if we do sort out some fluidity and improve our performance level we really will be flying. But even if we are I get the feeling there'll still be people waiting for every miscontrolled ball of Kuyt's, or odd-seeming substitution of Rafa's, to have a pop at them, and that's what I find depressing, not the rest of it.

Some people live very sad lives unfortunately.

[The_weatherman]

Personally I didn't build up any hope of winning the title this season. Still don't have a natural wide right player playing and we waste every single corner that comes our way....vital against park the bus teams to put in decent set pieces continuously

Dossena's crossing was woeful yesterday as well. Was good to see Carragher getting forward at times as well yesterday. The team just can't get rid of it's inconsistency and personally don't know the reason

We have only played one decent game in the Prem so far this season...not good enough

The results have been decent though, had we won it would have been our best ever start to the Premier.

[Sarb]

The results have been decent though, had we won it would have been our best ever start to the Premier.

We should have won. With the Mancs v Chelsea today it was a chance to open up a gap on one of them and season after season we fail to do it. I said yesterday 'I bet we don't beat Stoke'. For me it was a must win game to send out a message that things are different this time and we've got a chance

And also, I think the Reira sub for Babel was a bad one. Affected the width we were playing with and for me Babel just kept cutting inside all the time when he came on

A draw today will do me though, but it won't paper over the cracks of a bad result yesterday

[blacky]

Every team has bad results. That includes the Mancs, Chavs and Gooners. Newcastle, Spurs, Fulham have all taken points from the "BIG 3". This happens season after season. Yes we should have capitalised yesterday. We didn't break down an average team that came to defend but that's the premiership for you. The key is dusting ourselves off and beating the bitters next weekend which IMO we will do. Once yesterday is a blip and we learn from it and don'tletit happen again then it's not a problem, if it happens again and again then the RCDNR brigade can come on and preach to us all. But in the meantime can we just settle down and see how things unfold over the next month or two. Personally I believe we will challenge this season. I am quietly confident that we have the pedigree.

[Elvoz]

not even going to bother reading thro all this i can guess most of it

yeaterday was just one of them days
stoke defended valiantly and i certainly dont blame them for coming and putting 10 men behind the ball
we huffed and puffed .. if the goal had stood we would of hammered them im sure but we came up against a well organised defence
as i say many chance - a bit o luck one o them goes in but i can honestly say having benn there yesterday im disappointed but not down hearted

lets **** the bitters next week