Getting carried away

[red g]

Sorry guys, the rotation argument isnt a myth at all.

Fredo, you claim that we've rotated a lot too this season, but say that you dont have the stats - well i've checked the stats.

So far this season, we've played 9 competitve (not couting the League Cup) and in that time, we've made a total of 14 non-enforced changes, between games. That's 14 in nine.

The breakdown is:

2, 2, 1, 2, 2, 3, 2, 0

So it works out generally, at about 2 changes, from one game to the next. The maximum was 3.

Last season, after just THREE games, we'd made a total of 15 non-enforced changes. For the first nine games, we'd made a total of 40 non-enforced changes, more than double that of this season (in fact, nearly 3 times as many). Again, i didnt count the League Cup game.

The breakdown is:

5, 6, 4, 7, 5, 5, 6, 2

So generally speaking, we were making about 5 changes between games, and on odd occasions, as many as 6 or 7.

So sorry fredo, while you say "As I said, it's not about rotation being less as it's a myth.", it actually is very much about roation being less, it's much less.

I've looked into the stats and provided you with the evidence, so really, it's beyond question.

It's factually true to say that we have rotated MUCH less in the 1st 9 games of this campaign, than we did in the first 9 games of last season.

those are facts but........

1) how many injuries were sustained to players?
2) how many players were coming back from injuries?
3) how many players had a rrived in the summer and were getting ready for first team?

Also we have a stronger squad now, so we dont need to rotate as much. Benitex didnt have confidence in players so rotated more, I think that could be a fact

[Craig_H]

those are facts but........

1) how many injuries were sustained to players?
2) how many players were coming back from injuries?
3) how many players had a rrived in the summer and were getting ready for first team?

Also we have a stronger squad now, so we dont need to rotate as much. Benitex didnt have confidence in players so rotated more, I think that could be a fact

Yes, they're facts - how much better evidence is there than facts?

You cant legislate for injuries or players coming back from injury, and there's always new signings in the summer.

I only counted non-enforced changes and the fact is, contrary to what fredo so emphatically claimed, we have rotated FAR less this campaign than we did last year. Seems to be helping.

[bobbyfallon]

Sorry guys, the rotation argument isnt a myth at all.

Fredo, you claim that we've rotated a lot too this season, but say that you dont have the stats - well i've checked the stats.

So far this season, we've played 9 competitve (not couting the League Cup) and in that time, we've made a total of 14 non-enforced changes, between games. That's 14 in nine.

The breakdown is:

2, 2, 1, 2, 2, 3, 2, 0

So it works out generally, at about 2 changes, from one game to the next. The maximum was 3.

Last season, after just THREE games, we'd made a total of 15 non-enforced changes. For the first nine games, we'd made a total of 40 non-enforced changes, more than double that of this season (in fact, nearly 3 times as many). Again, i didnt count the League Cup game.

The breakdown is:

5, 6, 4, 7, 5, 5, 6, 2

So generally speaking, we were making about 5 changes between games, and on odd occasions, as many as 6 or 7.

So sorry fredo, while you say "As I said, it's not about rotation being less as it's a myth.", it actually is very much about roation being less, it's much less.

I've looked into the stats and provided you with the evidence, so really, it's beyond question.

It's factually true to say that we have rotated MUCH less in the 1st 9 games of this campaign, than we did in the first 9 games of last season.

fantastic post

[lfc1394]

Yes, they're facts - how much better evidence is there than facts?

You cant legislate for injuries or players coming back from injury, and there's always new signings in the summer.

I only counted non-enforced changes and the fact is, contrary to what fredo so emphatically claimed, we have rotated FAR less this campaign than we did last year. Seems to be helping.

Thanks Craig well put.
Since the boro game Rafa has got everything spot on, less rotation and players playing in thier positions. The results have, well spoken for themselves.
I know some people on here will not be happy with him no matter what. For me it's all I ask, for example against Stoke he did everything right and we drew, that's not his fault.

[DannyMan2006]

There were less enforced changes last year than Craig H is making out, some were forced due to injury and tiredness. But his point stands, Rafa is rotating far less this season.

Another key point is we have the players to provide two formations that we know will get results, the 442 and the 4231. Last few years I saw players playing in ridiculous positions in formations that were so strange that they worked for about ten minutes at the start of the game due to opposition managers being amazed by what they saw.

Then for the rest of the 80 minutes we got played off the park. Now we have no requirement to do this. It was brilliant how we played 442 against the mancs and were dominating the game, then just as they started to get a foot hold in the game with a couple of chances we brought Babel on and switched to 4231, again asserting our dominance.

Like most I still feel we need a couple of players to be 100% confident, there are a couple of players we need to wrap in cotton wool, but that is no different to the mancs who struggle without Ronaldo in their team.

[Craig_H]

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N161523081001-1148.htm

Seems like Rafa might finally be getting it...

Rafael Benitez today revealed the form of his key players this season has made it difficult for him to rotate his starting eleven.
The Reds boss is preparing his side for a Champions League test with PSV Eindhoven tonight, and has already revealed he has no intention of making wholesale changes against a side who suffered a damaging 3-0 defeat at the hands of Atletico Madrid in their opening match.

With Liverpool going into the game with three points already on the board after an emphatic victory in Marseille, Benitez is keen for his 'on fire' players to keep their current momentum going.

"We have the experience of last season," he admitted "I won't make many changes. If some players are on fire, maybe it is a good moment to keep them playing.

"Normally we try to check how the players are physically, mentally and also how the team is tactically – and then we decide whether we will change more or less players.

"But now we are in a good position so I do not think that I will change too many.

"When some players are playing well, but are tired, you say 'okay maybe we will have to keep them in.' But then you play them, they are tired and you have to change them in a game!

"You never know. If you win, you can say 'okay fantastic decision,' but I don't think I will change too many players.

"When we were analysing things this week we knew we had four days between the Everton match and this one and four days between this match and the Manchester City game. Three days is not enough, four days is better."

I hope he goes along with this train of thought because, it is indeed a good idea to keep players in the team when they're playing well and in form.

[red g]

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drill...81001-1148.htm

Seems like Rafa might finally be getting it...



I hope he goes along with this train of thought because, it is indeed a good idea to keep players in the team when they're playing well and in form.

yes of course because before he purposely left them out when they were playing well, I love the way you give the bloke zero credit or i suppose you are now coz he is doing waht you said all along

[Sarb]

The likes of Gerrard and Torres were rotated early last season. Our main match winners. It's happened a lot less this season, hence the good start

Rotation isn't a myth. Incorrect rotation costs you titles

[Sarb]

yes of course because before he purposely left them out when they were playing well, I love the way you give the bloke zero credit or i suppose you are now coz he is doing waht you said all along

Nail on head. He did on occasions. You're telling me Torres and Gerrard were tired three or four games into last season?

The article indicates that Rafa has finally clicked that rotating players in form is not always wise. And yes, it's what some people have been saying all along...so there's no need to give credit

[lfc1394]

yes of course because before he purposely left them out when they were playing well, I love the way you give the bloke zero credit or i suppose you are now coz he is doing waht you said all along

Rafa had his reasons but no one can argue that last season until January he chopped and changed too much, we were changing between formations and personel at an alarming rate.
It seemed to me like he was trying to keep everyone happy by playing them. It sent out the wrong signal in so far as it doesn't matter how well / bad you play you will be dropped / played regardless because I'm going to use the squad. Once we had a settled formation and were making 2-3 changes per match we started performing better and winning more games.

It seems like he has learnt from last year and that's the sign of a great manager. I don't see why it's such a big deal to admit that what he did last year wasn't working as it should??

[Pacman]

Nail on head. He did on occasions. You're telling me Torres and Gerrard were tired three or four games into last season?

The article indicates that Rafa has finally clicked that rotating players in form is not always wise. And yes, it's what some people have been saying all along...so there's no need to give credit

I suggest you get your facts right on the Gerrard and Torres rotation Sarb. At the start of last season Torres was rested for the Pompey away game. Torres played mid week for Spain and went off injured with a hip injury so Rafa kept him on the bench. Torres was also rested against Brum at home a game in which we drew - maybe that was a mistake but we should be beating teams like that without Torres. If my memory serves me right then it wasn't until we were out of the title race that Rafa started resting Torres again. In fact Fergie rested Ronaldo more times than Torres before Crimbo and the games he rested him in the lost (bolton away being one) where as we drew them.

This whole resting Torres rubbish is a complete Myth the other times Torres was on the bench was when he was coming back from injury. We tried to rush him back against Arsenal and made matters worse.

No offence fella but it really gets my goat up when people start talking about resting Stevie and Nando and using that as a stick to beat the manager. I agree Rafa has made mistakes with his team selections and has made changes in the past for sake of it but the resting Torres and Stevie thing is a load of rubbish.

[Sarb]

I suggest you get your facts right on the Gerrard and Torres rotation Sarb. At the start of last season Torres was rested for the Pompey away game. Torres played mid week for Spain and went off injured with a hip injury so Rafa kept him on the bench. Torres was also rested against Brum at home a game in which we drew - maybe that was a mistake but we should be beating teams like that without Torres. If my memory serves me right then it wasn't until we were out of the title race that Rafa started resting Torres again. In fact Fergie rested Ronaldo more times than Torres before Crimbo and the games he rested him in the lost (bolton away being one) where as we drew them.

This whole resting Torres rubbish is a complete Myth the other times Torres was on the bench was when he was coming back from injury. We tried to rush him back against Arsenal and made matters worse.

No offence fella but it really gets my goat up when people start talking about resting Stevie and Nando and using that as a stick to beat the manager. I agree Rafa has made mistakes with his team selections and has made changes in the past for sake of it but the resting Torres and Stevie thing is a load of rubbish.

How is it rubbish when you said yourself he was rested against Birmingham? I don't remember Gerrard being injured before the Pompey game. And also Torres didn't look injured when he came on. So why did they start on the bench? Tiredness was cited as an excuse

I'm not having a go at Rafa. But rotation of main players costs you a title chance

[red g]

The likes of Gerrard and Torres were rotated early last season. Our main match winners. It's happened a lot less this season, hence the good start

Rotation isn't a myth. Incorrect rotation costs you titles

correct rotation wins you titles

[red g]

I suggest you get your facts right on the Gerrard and Torres rotation Sarb. At the start of last season Torres was rested for the Pompey away game. Torres played mid week for Spain and went off injured with a hip injury so Rafa kept him on the bench. Torres was also rested against Brum at home a game in which we drew - maybe that was a mistake but we should be beating teams like that without Torres. If my memory serves me right then it wasn't until we were out of the title race that Rafa started resting Torres again. In fact Fergie rested Ronaldo more times than Torres before Crimbo and the games he rested him in the lost (bolton away being one) where as we drew them.

This whole resting Torres rubbish is a complete Myth the other times Torres was on the bench was when he was coming back from injury. We tried to rush him back against Arsenal and made matters worse.

No offence fella but it really gets my goat up when people start talking about resting Stevie and Nando and using that as a stick to beat the manager. I agree Rafa has made mistakes with his team selections and has made changes in the past for sake of it but the resting Torres and Stevie thing is a load of rubbish.

[Sarb]

correct rotation wins you titles

Agreed. Not against the rotation idea at all. But your best players when on form need to play the matches. The spine of the team should stay constant at all opportunities, until they absolutely need a rest or are injured