The lowdown on lucas

[Pablo]

Assume he means Aurelio.

We also have the young striker Vito Flora (sic), so thats four. Talk is he's a bit **** though.

[lfc1394]

Assume he means Aurelio.

We also have the young striker Vito Flora (sic), so thats four. Talk is he's a bit **** though.

Nah can't be, Aurelio used to be Brazilian, just hasn't had a run of injury free games for about 6 seasons. But when he has played 10-12 games he shows that he is Brazilian enough!

[dww]

1st point is i thought lucas wanted to play as a more advanced midfielder?!!? thats what he was saying during the summer - not a defensive midfeilder.

2nd point is IMO lucas passing is extremely poor

I think this thing about a second defensive midfielder is him trying to translate the role of 'second volante' from Brazilian football talk. There was a lot said about the time of his transfer, it is certainly not a position that is equivalent to our idea of a defensive midfielder and has much more attacking/creative responsibility than people are reading into this statement. If I can find a good definition I will post it.

[rage]

Assume he means Aurelio.

We also have the young striker Vito Flora (sic), so thats four. Talk is he's a bit **** though.

yep aurelio. although i think he does have it in his locker, just too injury prone

[el matador]

when we bought him vickery said he was a box to box midfield player and not a traditional brasilian holding midfielder. He liked to get forward and scored good goals.

Looks like rafa bought the wrong lucas.

[Craig_H]

What is your preferred position?

I'm in my favourite position now: I'm a second defensive midfielder

Completely dismisses the argument of people who have defended his mediocre performances by saying he is 'not a defensive midfielder'.

But Rafa assured me he would always pick players based on who is performing best.

Poor Lucas wasnt reckoning for the rotation system, when he fell for this beauty.

[El Jefecito]

Completely dismisses the argument of people who have defended his mediocre performances by saying he is 'not a defensive midfielder'.



Poor Lucas wasnt reckoning for the rotation system, when he fell for this beauty.

Fell for it? Lucas benefited from it! Rafa played him for most of the tail-end of last season when Xabi was crap. Xabi ain't playing crap so Lucas ain't playing. What's the problem?

BTW As dww alludes to DM means 10 different things to 5 different people, so I'm not sure how any arguments can be dismissed on the basis of his use of the word DM. You don't even know if he used the word DM, that was probably the translators choice of word.

[Craig_H]

Problem is though, that Lucas has never been the one who's 'performing best'.

Having said that, you're right that he's benefitted, although what he benefitted from was the rotation system, rather than a system where whoever performs best gets picked - because under such a system, he'd have hardly got a game.

You don't even know if he used the word DM, that was probably the translators choice of word.

Two problems here. Firstly, translators usually dont just change it for a word that means something different. So his 'choice' would've been limited to terms which mean the same thing.

Second point, which makes the first redundant anyway - Lucas speaks english.

[dww]

Fell for it? Lucas benefited from it! Rafa played him for most of the tail-end of last season when Xabi was crap. Xabi ain't playing crap so Lucas ain't playing. What's the problem?

BTW As dww alludes to DM means 10 different things to 5 different people, so I'm not sure how any arguments can be dismissed on the basis of his use of the word DM. You don't even know if he used the word DM, that was probably the translators choice of word.

I'm now almost 100% sure that it is a direct and by most accounts inaccurate translation (whether by Lucas or the interviewer) of the phrase second volante. Which as far as I understand it would most closely translate as the way Xabi player when he was partnered with Hamann although it's not really a position that is much used in this country (I would say it is arguable that Gerrard has adopted it of late in CM for us but he is not careful enough in possession, a probably better analogy as I understand it would be Lampard for Chelsea when partnered with Makelele under Mourinho). It's not a totally defined position but the emphasis seems to be on basing ones position deep but having an influence on play further forward through largely short passes that change the direction of play.

[Craig_H]

Dww, is it closer to a 'deep lying playmaker' type of role? Like a Pirlo?

[dww]

Dww, is it closer to a 'deep lying playmaker' type of role? Like a Pirlo?

He's one of the players often referenced as as close as there is in the European game. There was an excellent article on it when we signed Lucas on some Brazilian football site but I can't find it for the life of me now.

[Craig_H]

He's one of the players often referenced as as close as there is in the European game. There was an excellent article on it when we signed Lucas on some Brazilian football site but I can't find it for the life of me now.

Is that the kind of role which 'second volante' actually refers to though? The deeper lying playmaker, ala Pirlo (and Alonso, you could argue).

[dww]

Is that the kind of role which 'second volante' actually refers to though? The deeper lying playmaker, ala Pirlo (and Alonso, you could argue).

More or less, although in Brazil they seem to demand more in terms of mobility going forward in the position that either of those two examples which is sort of why I muddied the waters with Lampard.

[Craig_H]

It sounds somewhat demanding, asking someone to take that deeper role to influence the tempo and spot passes, whilst also requiring him to get further forward and threaten from there too

Sounds like Gerrard

[dww]

It sounds somewhat demanding, asking someone to take that deeper role to influence the tempo and spot passes, whilst also requiring him to get further forward and threaten from there too

Sounds like Gerrard

I think it relies to some degree on the style of football played in Brazil (which is why it isn't used a lot in Europe) or possibly international football.

I said Gerrard is arguably the style of player but he is not adept at the short passing in the way that might be demanded by the ideal Brazilian incarnation. I suspect that the combination of Xabi and Gerrard is what Rafa and Lucas hope Lucas will become. Personally I think he should concentrate on emulating Xabi and seeing where that takes him.

I think he has a lot of talent in terms of short passing and his movement for other players is good. However at the minute he has no authority to his game in terms of tackling or dictating the pattern of play.