Post Match Thread v Arsenal

[Craig_H]

Unlike the games against Hull and Fulham, i dont think there's much to complain about today. We played well, i though. Easy to forget how big a void players like Torres and Mascherano leave when they're out.

First half we werent too good, had a couple of potential openings but possibly a tad fortunate to go in level.

Second half, we controlled the game and had a couple of chances to win it. Pleased with the performance. Delighted with Insua, who looks a very tidy player. Good going forward, can beat his man and deliver into the box. Where he differs from Dossena though, is that he can defend too. Very pleased with him, his place ahead of Dossena in the pecking order should be cemented solid, for me.

I know people are saying that we 'should' have won it (makes me laugh that, away to Arsenal and taking it for granted that we 'should' win) but it's not as easy as that.

We played well and controlled the game, but didnt go gung-ho and rightly so.

It's easy to say we should've thrown the kitchen sink at them, they only had 10 men, blah blah but the fact is, Arsenal are the kind of team who, even with 10 men, can carve you open almost at will sometimes, and they're always a threat.

If we'd opened ourselves up and just gone mad in search of the winner, we'd have probably lost.

What we did was still look for a winner, but in a more controlled, disciplined way. No arguments with that, i think we played it right and it just didnt happen.

One more thing about Arsenal going down to 10 men - i'm not sure if it came across on tv but their fans went a bit mental at the red card and were totally galvanised by it. Their players responded and were more fired up, which is why we lost some of our momentum.

Slightly disappointed that we didnt finish them off, but all in all, we played very well 2nd half and before people have a go at Rafa, they need to take a step back and realise that Rafa's the man who's put us in the position whereby we feel we 'should' (there's that word again) go away to Arsenal, and win. Some people seem to take it as a given that we'd go and win there, which is a testament to the kind of level that Rafa's lifted us to.

We need to keep our focus for boxing day and beat Bolton. And if we're on our game at Newcastle, we should be capable of beating them too, despite their minor revival. They're due a loss.

7 points from Bolton at home and Arsenal & Newcastle away would be a very good return.

[Craig_H]

Anyone think the blue****e will lose tomorrow knowing it will knock us off the tp?

I think they'll lose, but not because they want to knock us off the top.

They'll lose simply because they're utter ****e.

[Craig_H]

well go listen to it again. i heard it as we should have gone for it, not going for it means **** all ambition as far as i'm concerned.

i'd rather have lost today to a sucker goal at the end and gone for it rather than what we did with our subs in the second half today.

Well that's very stupid of you then. I'd take 1 point over none every day of the week.

As for the subs, what's the problem? They were all attackings subs.

Keane was dead on his feet having worked his balls off, and taking him off was the right decision, because he was no longer in any condition to positively influence the game for us. Riera had taken a whack too, so he came off.

[Craig_H]

3 please

Selling Babel would be so kneejerk and foolish. He's got bags of talent and ability, he's quick and strong, and has a beast of a shot on him.

He needs to regain his confidence and go back to basics for a while, but he's got what it takes, it's just a bit of development and maturity he needs.

[Reece]

Unlike the games against Hull and Fulham, i dont think there's much to complain about today. We played well, i though. Easy to forget how big a void players like Torres and Mascherano leave when they're out.

First half we werent too good, had a couple of potential openings but possibly a tad fortunate to go in level.

Second half, we controlled the game and had a couple of chances to win it. Pleased with the performance. Delighted with Insua, who looks a very tidy player. Good going forward, can beat his man and deliver into the box. Where he differs from Dossena though, is that he can defend too. Very pleased with him, his place ahead of Dossena in the pecking order should be cemented solid, for me.

I know people are saying that we 'should' have won it (makes me laugh that, away to Arsenal and taking it for granted that we 'should' win) but it's not as easy as that.

We played well and controlled the game, but didnt go gung-ho and rightly so.

It's easy to say we should've thrown the kitchen sink at them, they only had 10 men, blah blah but the fact is, Arsenal are the kind of team who, even with 10 men, can carve you open almost at will sometimes, and they're always a threat.

If we'd opened ourselves up and just gone mad in search of the winner, we'd have probably lost.

What we did was still look for a winner, but in a more controlled, disciplined way. No arguments with that, i think we played it right and it just didnt happen.

One more thing about Arsenal going down to 10 men - i'm not sure if it came across on tv but their fans went a bit mental at the red card and were totally galvanised by it. Their players responded and were more fired up, which is why we lost some of our momentum.

Slightly disappointed that we didnt finish them off, but all in all, we played very well 2nd half and before people have a go at Rafa, they need to take a step back and realise that Rafa's the man who's put us in the position whereby we feel we 'should' (there's that word again) go away to Arsenal, and win. Some people seem to take it as a given that we'd go and win there, which is a testament to the kind of level that Rafa's lifted us to.

We need to keep our focus for boxing day and beat Bolton. And if we're on our game at Newcastle, we should be capable of beating them too, despite their minor revival. They're due a loss.

7 points from Bolton at home and Arsenal & Newcastle away would be a very good return.

Good post that

[Craig_H]

Good result.

You lot are stupid

You do realise that although they were a man down it was an attacker not a defender. So all they lost was an attacking threat. That did not make them any easier to break down. You lot are all acting like their key defender got sent off. Idiots

I didnt want to be as forward as to call people idiots, but you're spot on.

People cant have it both ways. If they think we're good enough that we should go and beat Arsenal away, then they need to recognise that it's Rafa who's made us that good.

[red g]

I didnt want to be as forward as to call people idiots, but you're spot on.

People cant have it both ways. If they think we're good enough that we should go and beat Arsenal away, then they need to recognise that it's Rafa who's made us that good.

worse we can be is 1 pt of top on christmas day, would have bitten your hand off at beginning of the season, specially if you told me we would have to do most of it without your star striker

[Mark79]

Good result.

You lot are stupid

You do realise that although they were a man down it was an attacker not a defender. So all they lost was an attacking threat. That did not make them any easier to break down. You lot are all acting like their key defender got sent off. Idiots

Sorry but that makes very little sense.

Isn't it usually the case that if a defender is sent off then one of the forwards is immediately subbed for another defender? At the very least the team is reshuffled to fill in the defence.

Its not like if a centre half gets sent off then the team just carries on with a big gap in the defence!!!

Bottom line is that we were a man up for half an hour of that match but didnt take advantage.

Maybe have a little think before you call other people stupid because you have just embarrassed yourself there.

[rage]

Sorry but that makes very little sense.

Isn't it usually the case that if a defender is sent off then one of the forwards is immediately subbed for another defender? At the very least the team is reshuffled to fill in the defence.

Its not like if a centre half gets sent off then the team just carries on with a big gap in the defence!!!

Bottom line is that we were a man up for half an hour of that match but didnt take advantage.

Maybe have a little think before you call other people stupid because you have just embarrassed yourself there.

[barnes10]

arsenal played well and really fought after going down to 10.

a good result and a very pleasing performance. at times - start of the second half - we were awesome to dominate away at arsenal. nobody does that.

basically we're going to finish strongly once torres is back fit and keane more settled. and we'll hopefully be doing it from a strong base - about 1 point off the lead going into jan is a decent place to be.

sure we can regret losing points but this year's league is an odd one. we've just got to beat to top 4. chelsea at home and man u away are massive games.

arsenal aren't out of it yet but i don't think they'll claw it back. fabregas and adebayor out for at least 3 games could cost them heavily.

not nearly as pissed off today as i was after the home draws. yes there were some negatives but that was a good point today and you can't dismiss arsenal with 10 men. they got better once he was sent off today.

we are definately the worst of the top 4 or 5 at finishing moves/chances tho. we are so wasteful.

[slimbimjim]

Still top of the league, half a season to go, Torres to come back, Insua is great and Keane scored.

Stop being so damn critical. Do you think we'd be here with a manager like Sam Allardice? No I didn't think so.

Thank you and goodnight.

[-V-]

Sorry but that makes very little sense.

Isn't it usually the case that if a defender is sent off then one of the forwards is immediately subbed for another defender? At the very least the team is reshuffled to fill in the defence.

Its not like if a centre half gets sent off then the team just carries on with a big gap in the defence!!!

Bottom line is that we were a man up for half an hour of that match but didnt take advantage.

Maybe have a little think before you call other people stupid because you have just embarrassed yourself there.

WTF? Did Gallas get sent off? Did Clichy get sent off? Did they lose a key defensive player? NO. They lost a striker so they didn't have to sub on a 2nd rate defender did they?

Their 2 banks of 4 remained intact and didnt need to be shuffled about or changed. They sat deep put their two lines of 4 behind the ball and made it hard for us

Idiot

[Joe King]

Times: Rafael Benitez's team lack belief in title race Matt Dickinson,
Rafael Benitez's team lack belief in title race

Matt Dickinson,
Chief Sports Correspondent

The case for Liverpool winning their first league title since 1990 may have been given credibility by a satisfying result in North London, but it worsened the more you studied the detail.

Top of the table is never a bad place to sit, but you do wonder how Rafael Benítez’s side are still there after drawing four of their past five Barclays Premier League matches. And you pondered how they expect to remain there unless they resolve the attacking side of their game; an issue that is not purely a question of getting Fernando Torres fit but one of attitude.

The league leaders had the opportunity to push for victory in the second half at the Emirates Stadium yesterday. Arsenal had lost Cesc Fàbregas to a knee injury at half-time and then Emmanuel Adebayor, inset, to a second booking (both cautions easily justifiable despite the boos) with almost half an hour to go.

Here was the chance for Liverpool to apply pressure to a team with obvious defensive vulnerabilities, even with 11 men and, significantly, to record a result that would have been noted as far away as Japan, where Manchester United were involved in the Club World Cup.

Such pressure failed to materialise and if it was understandable that Robbie Keane should start alone up front, it seemed odd that no one should be shoved up alongside him in a bold push for victory. The obvious switch would have been to move Dirk Kuyt alongside the isolated Keane but the Dutchman came inside with only nine minutes to go and ended up playing off the teenage David Ngog.

None of these changes amounted to an attempt by Liverpool’s bench to swing the momentum of the game away from an Arsenal team fired up by what they perceived to be the unjust dismissal of Adebayor.

We must assume that Liverpool would have been no more adventurous had Benítez been sat on the sidelines rather than recuperating at home from surgery to remove kidney stones. Television on, phone clasped to his ear, the Spaniard yabbered away to Xavi Valero, the goalkeeping coach, for the entire afternoon, directing operations from his armchair. If he wanted two centre forwards, he need only have said so.

Perhaps, from a couple of hundred miles away, he did not sense that this was a chance for Liverpool to make a statement, but Wenger appeared as mystified as the rest of us by Liverpool’s lack of adventure. “Were they tired or scared to push on?” the Arsenal manager asked, pointing out that a couple of Liverpool players were suffering from fatigue. “I am convinced that Liverpool will drop many points. Why? Because they already have. They have four draws at home so they dropped eight points there. Why won’t they drop those again in the second half of the season?”

The expected return of Torres, perhaps as soon as Boxing Day, is one riposte. The Spaniard not only brings goals but also a more expansive way of playing. Yesterday Liverpool relied largely, and successfully in the case of Keane’s spectacular equaliser, on balls over the top.

With only one league defeat, fewer than any of their rivals, Benítez might consider that his team remain on course for the trophy that players such as Jamie Carragher and Steven Gerrard covet above all others.

But after the frustration of draws against Fulham, West Ham United and Hull City, this was another game when you were left to wonder if Liverpool are capable of closing the deal — not only in these matches but in the championship race itself.

Do they have the belief that victory can be theirs? Are they, to borrow a phrase from Sir Alex Ferguson, “ready to win”? In the specifics of one afternoon, and in the broader sweep of things, you would have to conclude that they are probably not.


I usually don't agree with the baldy **** but I am for this one.

[badpiggy]

only basing this on match of the day but i thought insua looked very composed with a few nice bits of skill, keane busted his bollix again, scored and played well - really think he'll come good as this was a second really good performance in a row - alonso is a tough ****er, agger has a sweet pass and el zhar has something good about him.

[-V-]

Wenger is hilarious. His team have been so **** this season its unreal. He has the nerve to almost criticize us for dropping points in 4 home games and yet his team has lost so many games already.

He is simply trying to shift attention from his own failings this season. His team have lost 5 league games already to Stoke, Villa, Hull, Fulham and Citeh.. He's feeling the pressure because he knows his squad won't be able to cope without Fabregas. His central midfield was barely being held together by Fab if even that.

Everyone knows Arsenal only have the mentality to turn up for the big games. So he should try to figure out whats going on in his own players heads before he questions our belief