Stoke Build Up

[dww]

With Torres coming back from injury and Alonso picking one up there are at least a couple of selection issues to chew over.

I liked the fluidity of the front four against Newcastle but suspect that Stoke will be better at compressing the game. I would probably go for the same team but perhaps swap Riera for Babel. I wouldn't be looking to risk Torres from the start.

Just thought - does anyone have any information on Mascher's injury?

[BigChief]

Playing Babel from the start would be like playing with 10 men. He needs to be used as an impact sub and nothing else. We'll need to really stretch Stoke out which means using a proper winger, not Babel. Similar job for Benayoun on the right. Which means Keane and Kuyt up front from the start.

Oh yes, and Hyppia to deal with Delap.

Reina,
Carra, Hyppia, Agger, Insua,
Mascher, Gerrard,
Benayoun, Keane, Riera,
Kuyt

From the bench at 60 and 70 mins: Torres (for Keane) and Lucas (for Kuyt - thus pushing Gerrard closer to Torres) respectively. Babel at 75-80 mins for Riera.

[Craig_H]

Reina,
Carra, Hyppia, Agger, Insua,
Mascher, Gerrard,
Benayoun, Keane, Riera,
Kuyt

Yeah, putting our best player in a position where he can barely influence the game - great idea

If Alonso isnt fit (i think he will be), i'd either go to 442 or play someone out of position, if need be.

Gerrard has to be allowed to influence things going forward.

[BigChief]

Our best midfielder this season is Alonso, such a shame he's put in that role where he can't influence the game. Do you even watch Liverpool matches?

This would be the team I start with before Stoke show us their hand. If they've gone for a surprise two up front then we change things. If they don't then we need all our attacking players on the pitch and that is the best fit.

[Craig_H]

Our best midfielder this season is Alonso, such a shame he's put in that role where he can't influence the game. Do you even watch Liverpool matches?

This would be the team I start with before Stoke show us their hand. If they've gone for a surprise two up front then we change things. If they don't then we need all our attacking players on the pitch and that is the best fit.

Mate, however you dress it up, our best PLAYER is gerrard, Alonso's form has been superb but Gerrard's 'average' level is pretty much better than anyone else when they're on form.

Alonso is a great player, but Gerrard wins us games single handed.

Negating his attacking capabilities is a bit like driving a ferrari, but changing the engine for a honda.

[BigChief]

I have no idea what you are saying and your analogies are irrelevant. If putting Keane on the pitch means asking Gerrard to move to Alonso's position (one he is capable of doing destruction from same as from right wing) then that's the way forward.

I'd rather have Gerrard-Mascha than Lucas-Mascha as that is more negative. 0-0 written all over that. We will also struggle with 442 as Masch/Lucas aren't as good with Gerrard there as Alonso is with Gerrard.

So, in summation, my team is boss.

[Craig_H]

I have no idea what you are saying and your analogies are irrelevant. If putting Keane on the pitch means asking Gerrard to move to Alonso's position (one he is capable of doing destruction from same as from right wing) then that's the way forward.

I'd rather have Gerrard-Mascha than Lucas-Mascha as that is more negative. 0-0 written all over that. We will also struggle with 442 as Masch/Lucas aren't as good with Gerrard there as Alonso is with Gerrard.

So, in summation, my team is boss.

Why do you have no idea what i'm saying? I thought my comments were fairly straightforward and easy to understand.

I think your team is dire. The personnel is fine in itself, but the way you seem to want to utilise them is just wrong in my view.

Reina,
Carra, Hyppia, Agger, Insua,
Mascher, Gerrard,
Benayoun, Keane, Riera,
Kuyt

You have Gerrard playing a defensive midfield role, completely restricting him from doing what he does best, going forward, creating and scoring goals.

You have Keane, who's struggled enough in his own position, playing in a foreign position - he is no midfielder. When he's played in the hole, he's done it dropping deeper from a striker role, not advancing from a central midfield position.

You have Benayoun, a player who offers virtually nothing out wide, in a wide position. And as if to completely dismiss any form of utilising the right hand flank in an attacking sense - you have Carra playing behind him. So when benayoun comes inside as he always does, you'd have a right back who doesnt like to overlap and get forward playing behind Yossi.

And you have Kuyt playing up front on his own - a position that has seen some seriously invisible displays from him.

Your team would have practically no goal threat and would do well to get a point.

[wiw]

In response to Craig - I think 'dire' and 'woeful' are a bit unnecessary wouldn't you say?

Is BigChiefs team not the one that beat Bolton 3-0? (apart from Mascher being in for Alonso..the former arguably better suited for away games)

Surely the point on Keane is a bit pedantic..he operates in the hole, how it is presented on a forum isn't that big a deal? To say Benayoun offers 'next to nothing' is borderline ridiculous

[dww]

Benayoun has been very good of late largely starting in a wide position (and I haven't been a huge fan of his).

I'm not a big fan of Gerrard deeper but he can do a job. It would require more creativity from Keane though and I can see some of Craig's criticism in that respect, especially if you have Kuyt up front who will also drop off.

I also think it is worth looking at the Mascher-Lucas axis in the Newcastle game before criticising it's lack of creativity. If they are allowed to press the opposition high enough up the pitch then what seems a negative selection can in fact free the front four and fullbacks.

[Craig_H]

In response to Craig - I think 'dire' and 'woeful' are a bit unnecessary wouldn't you say?

Is BigChiefs team not the one that beat Bolton 3-0? (apart from Mascher being in for Alonso..the former arguably better suited for away games)

Surely the point on Keane is a bit pedantic..he operates in the hole, how it is presented on a forum isn't that big a deal? To say Benayoun offers 'next to nothing' is borderline ridiculous

As i alluded to, it's more about how the players would be utilised. Call it patronising if you like, i think it'd make a major difference.

Gerrard as a DM is a horrible waste of his match winning ability. Keane is a forward or a second striker, not an attacking midfielder. I'm just calling a spade a spade here.

Yossi does offer very very little (or virtually nothing, in another way of expressing it - now who's being pedantic?) in terms of width. When he plays in a wide role, we invariably end up trying to force our way through a congested centre of the park.

Bolton at home is quite different from Stoke away.

Only Fulham, Arsenal, Man Utd and us have better home records than Stoke. The Britannia isnt an easy place to go and win. Bolton always come and get beaten at Anfield.

[Craig_H]

Benayoun has been very good of late largely starting in a wide position (and I haven't been a huge fan of his).

I'm not a big fan of Gerrard deeper but he can do a job. It would require more creativity from Keane though and I can see some of Craig's criticism in that respect, especially if you have Kuyt up front who will also drop off.

I also think it is worth looking at the Mascher-Lucas axis in the Newcastle game before criticising it's lack of creativity. If they are allowed to press the opposition high enough up the pitch then what seems a negative selection can in fact free the front four and fullbacks.

To put it quite simply mate, if Gerrard plays in a holding role and Torres isnt playing - i think we'd struggle to score.

As you say, Lucas and Mascher have done well of late and Lucas deserves to play, based on his last couple of performances. For what it's worth, i think alonso will be fit anyway, so it'll all be moot.

If Xabi isnt fit, the team should be:

Reina
Carragher Hyypia Agger Insua
Mascherano Lucas
Kuyt Gerrard Riera
Torres

[wiw]

As i alluded to, it's more about how the players would be utilised. Call it patronising if you like, i think it'd make a major difference.

Gerrard as a DM is a horrible waste of his match winning ability. Keane is a forward or a second striker, not an attacking midfielder. I'm just calling a spade a spade here.

Yossi does offer very very little (or virtually nothing, in another way of expressing it - now who's being pedantic?) in terms of width. When he plays in a wide role, we invariably end up trying to force our way through a congested centre of the park.

Bolton at home is quite different from Stoke away.

Only Fulham, Arsenal, Man Utd and us have better home records than Stoke. The Britannia isnt an easy place to go and win. Bolton always come and get beaten at Anfield.

I know dude, I'm just saying the words you used are patronising not your argument itself?

Anyway - agree on Keane, surely he meant second striker though the way he did his formation.

With regards to Yossi I misread your post I think his drifting inside is less of an issue with Riera staying wide more on the other flank though, and he has done better of late

Would you not say Bolton and Stoke are similar sides? If anything Bolton are better on the deck and more organised..Stoke just seem to employ alehouse tactics but nothing Hyypia/the rest can't handle. Bolton had won 4/5 coming into our game, but Stoke's home record speaks for itself.

Regardlesss I can see the merits of both teams...I wouldn't rush Torres back so soon though

[Jack D Rips]

Torres will play. Kuyt will play. Keane will play.

Xabi will not be fit. centre mid will be Stevie and either mascher if fit, or lucas. Riera will play.

That is all

[BigChief]

Craig, if you haven't seen Benayoun holding that wide position (under orders no doubt) then you have completely lost all credibility. Yossi is the best thing we have on the right going on form over the last two games.

Keane needs to play to utilise the space that Riera and Yossi will hopefully create. Apart from finishing Keane is every much the £20 million player that we bought. He won't be restricted in his position either, Kuyt also likes to drop into that position so Keane will just switch with him at times and play off the last man.

In short, to play Lucas instead of Keane is negative (and madness). Gerrard will have his chances in front of goal, just from different positions. Its happened before you know - that is a position he's grown up with and earned that "he scores from 40 yards" song.

Edit: I'd rather have Stoke worrying about what Keane and Gerrard might do from 35 yards onwards than what Lucas and Gerrard might do.

[Philosophia]

I would just like to interrupt the acrimonious debate to say that I am going to the Stoke game on Saturday and that I am pretty bloody psyched about it: I live in the US, so my opportunities for seeing live games are limited. That is all. Please go about your usual business.