Rafa is over cautious

[Craig_H]

aren't you of the camp advocating worrying about ourselves and not the opposition?

Yes i am. That doesnt mean i feel we shouldnt ever change the way we play though.

When i say about not worrying about the opposition, i meant from a defensive point of view. We're miles better than most teams, so if we just use what we've got, we should be fine most of the time.

[Kenneth]

Yes i am. That doesnt mean i feel we shouldnt ever change the way we play though.

When i say about not worrying about the opposition, i meant from a defensive point of view. We're miles better than most teams, so if we just use what we've got, we should be fine most of the time.

And we are most of the time, but most of the time isn't enough.

[BG1973]

Yes i am. That doesnt mean i feel we shouldnt ever change the way we play though.

When i say about not worrying about the opposition, i meant from a defensive point of view. We're miles better than most teams, so if we just use what we've got, we should be fine most of the time.

Why did you then ask me if I realise stoke and newcastle are different teams in another thread?

on the one hand you're saying worry about ourselves. last away game 1-5. rafa may be justified in thinking it would be good enough for stoke. On the other you're saying adapt the formation..

I agree with a lot of posters who say we should have changed things at half time because it was clear Stoke gained the momentum. I don't agree there was anything wrong with intial formation.

[BigChief]

lets face it we could have put any team out against newcastle and still have won at a canter.

by beating newcastle we didnt confirm our title credentials or all of a sudden look like favourites because Newcastle are a club in turmoil both on and off the pitch and hammering them isnt the statement of intent that people make out to be.

Hammering Everton on sunday would be.

Thing is, the team against Everton picks itself and if I say so its looking like a freakingly good team, i.e. Alonso, Torres, Gerrard and Kuyt all in their accustomed roles. Arbeloa bringing some width will also help.

That sort of team is easy to pick, what Rafa needed to do was pick a good bunch (or change things soon) when Torres and Alonso were out. I'm not anti-Rafa, just wishing that nobody else gets injured because I don't think Rafa will know what to do (again).

[Tee]

Will Xabi be back for Everton though?

If not I really hope Stevie drops back to CM and Keane plays off Torres. Actually we could even play that way with Xabi in the team (drop Mascher to the bench).

[Fierce]

I dont expect us to win all the time, that would be ridiculous but i do expect us to be proactively seeking a winning goal. If we pile on the pressure but cant find a finish, fair enough, that can happen at times. It's just when we give opponents an easy ride, that it frustrates me.

[Craig_H]

And we are most of the time, but most of the time isn't enough.

We're not though.

We fail to win more than a third of the time.

[Craig_H]

Why did you then ask me if I realise stoke and newcastle are different teams in another thread?

on the one hand you're saying worry about ourselves. last away game 1-5. rafa may be justified in thinking it would be good enough for stoke. On the other you're saying adapt the formation..

I agree with a lot of posters who say we should have changed things at half time because it was clear Stoke gained the momentum. I don't agree there was anything wrong with intial formation.

Where did i say adapt the formation?

I think you need different things to break down Stoke, than you do to break down Newcastle.

When i said about not worrying about other teams, i meant not allowing ourselves to become defensive and cautious.

Like i said, we rarely get more than 2 men into the opposition box, which is distinctly cautious. We simply do not 'go for it'.

[BigChief]

Will Xabi be back for Everton though?

If not I really hope Stevie drops back to CM and Keane plays off Torres. Actually we could even play that way with Xabi in the team (drop Mascher to the bench).

That's the way I wanted us to play Stoke and argued against Craig H until I was blue. No, but he insisted that Gerrard would be more influential just behind Kuyt.

[rudedog]

I'm not entirely sure that we were set up to be cautious it's just that it is sort of a default when we play poorly. No one took responsibility for changing our style of play and so when things didn't come off after the first 25 minutes or so we went back into our shell and as we were passing poorly no matter what we changed would have been unlikely to have a huge effect.

I think a less cautious approach would have been to have Gerrard and Mash in the middle, Torres up front with Keane playing deeper. Kuyt could have been pushed out wide where he still could have added some steel to the midfield and its where hes performed best this season.

Torres isn't match fit but had we managed to get an early goal it would have forced Stoke to change their entire game plan - We could have taken Torres off at half time to replace him with Babel or even have reverted to something like Rafa's original line up.

However, having said that - the team Rafa fielded should have had the quality to break down stoke.

[Craig_H]

That's the way I wanted us to play Stoke and argued against Craig H until I was blue. No, but he insisted that Gerrard would be more influential just behind Kuyt.

Actually, my selection would've had Gerrard just behind Torres, not Kuyt.

Quite a bit of difference between Torres and Kuyt.

[BigChief]

Actually, my selection would've had Gerrard just behind Torres, not Kuyt.

Quite a bit of difference between Torres and Kuyt.

I replied in the Stoke build up thread on the day of the match. I noticed you ignored that. We were both planning our teams WITHOUT Torres. I said move Gerrard back and play Keane behind Kuyt. You said play Lucas so Gerrard would have more influence up front with Kuyt.

That's what I was referring to and you're blanking from your memory. So how did your Lucas prediction work out, genius?

[Craig_H]

I replied in the Stoke build up thread on the day of the match. I noticed you ignored that. We were both planning our teams WITHOUT Torres. I said move Gerrard back and play Keane behind Kuyt. You said play Lucas so Gerrard would have more influence up front with Kuyt.

That's what I was referring to and you're blanking from your memory. So how did your Lucas prediction work out, genius?

I've never advocated playing Kuyt up front on his own, i've always said i dont like that, so clearly i wouldnt have been saying play Kuyt up front on his own, with Gerrard behind.

[Woobus]

We're not though.

We fail to win more than a third of the time.

United and Chelsea are screwed then as their win ratio is just as bad if not worse. Hmmm looking down the league it looks like no one will win the league as all there ratios are worse than ours.

[Craig_H]

United and Chelsea are screwed then as their win ratio is just as bad if not worse. Hmmm looking down the league it looks like no one will win the league as all there ratios are worse than ours.

Sadly, if United win their 2 games in hand, your confident analysis will be incorrect.

As things stand, we've only won 61% of our league games, while United have won 63%.

If they beat Wigan and Bolton, their ratio will increase to 66%.

So unfortunately, you're wrong, as their win ratio is already better than ours and looks likely to get better.