If in the summer you were told that.....

[slimbimjim]

I am disappointed by our shaky performances and dropped points but we still have a very realistic chance of winning the league.

We seem to assume that Man U and Chelsea will be invincible from this point which simply isn't true.

[rudedog]

If in the summer you'd told me we had a great chance to be mid jan and 8 points clear of man u at the top but that we blew it then i'd be pretty disappointed.

happy we got there, but very disappointed that we didnt capitalise when we're fighting it out with the best teams in the world.

look i know all is not lost as we're joint top but we have literally handed the initiaive on a plate to man fooking u. so its pretty patronising to be told to look on the bright side of that. i'll look on the bright side when our team and manager start playing like they want to win this ******* league and not just piss it away and give it to our nearest rivals.

That would mean we would have only dropped 2 points at home all season? That would be a truly miraculous feat considering our injuries and form.

I really think you are not looking at this in perspective.

[Kenneth]

I think we nearly all would. It's easy to have an opinion clouded by hindsight.

It's not that simple though, the first half of the seaon did happen and what happened is relevant to what will happen. If we were starting afresh, it woud be better than now when Rafa has embarrassed himself in the media, we've bottled it against crap teams at Anfield and we're going backwards while Utd are building a head of steam. Yes, maybe I'd still have taken it on the basis that we may be able to kick on, but we still played Lucas a lot, we still made **** substitutions a lot, we did buy Robbie Keane at 20 million and his ****ness made us feel embarrassed on his behalf as, Gerrard was charged with assault and could miss games, Rafa did reject a contract offer. All combined, I am less than happy with our current situation than with the hypothetical one outlined. Still hope we can kick on but don't expect it.

[BigChief]

I am disappointed by our shaky performances and dropped points but we still have a very realistic chance of winning the league.

We seem to assume that Man U and Chelsea will be invincible from this point which simply isn't true.

This goes back to Birdman's original post. I would obviously take being joint top but the ONLY reason we are is because Chelsea and manure have allowed us to be. We've done no more than be joint top with seriuosly injury-ridden and underperforming teams.

That takes the glow away somewhat. This is not pessimism, its realism.

[RedSpartan]

We would be top in January level on points with Man U would you have been happy???


I know I would have been delighted.
I'm not dismissing that some home results have been disappointing, I'm not saying that we shouldn't be in a better position now than we are but hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Can you see and acknowledge the progress?? I'm sure someone can find the stats to say how far off the top we've been at this stage of the season over the past 10 years let alone just in Rafa's reign.
We're joint top without Torres featuring much due to injury, how many more points do you think we'd have with him playing in every league game??
You can't as a player have the self belief to say we finished 4th for the last few years, miles of the pace but we'll win it this year, that's just garbage trotted out for interviews, the self belief has to grow with the realisation that you can actually win it, that comes with winning the big games against the other top 3, it comes with being involved right at the very top of the league for a sustained period of time and it comes with the undivided support of the home and travelling fans week in week out.

As for those who want Rafa gone that's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion but when you express it back it up with who you would replace him with that could do a better job, realistically given the fact that he doesn't control the youth set up and can't even decide which players to buy and sell, when to do it and for how much.

We are a club in a massive mess behind the scenes at the moment, to be where we are in the league is nothing short of a miracle when you throw in Parry, Hicks, Gillette, the debt, no stadium, takeover, no takeover and at least 15 years to make up in UK and globel marketing and revenue production.

I'm not throwing in the towel but to go from 20 years of underachievement to winning it the 1st time we're serious, serious contenders is a massive ask.

Well said sir !

Remember still 16 games to play.....title doesnt get handed out until may and we're still in the shake up.

If roles were reversed and Manure were in our position, they'd be still fancying them to win.

Game on!

[barnes10]

I agree but that is based on what you know now. Did you honestly think we'd be 8 points clear at the top in Jan??
Didn't mean to come across as patronising in the origional post

I honestly thought we'd beat hull, stoke, west ham and fulham at home.

My gripe is not that we seemed to have gotten to the top of the league. clearly im delighted that this has happened. i just have reservations based on what im seeing.

Our problem is being clinical this season. we just cant seem to score enough and arent turning draws into wins. this is obvious i think.

Actually wasnt saying you in particular was patronising, just all these posts that seem to gloss over that we're still letting ourselves badly down by not taking the 'easy' points. We don't go for the jugular on the pitch half as much as rafa does off it and this will cost us the title.

[Cormack74]

It's not that simple though, the first half of the seaon did happen and what happened is relevant to what will happen. If we were starting afresh, it woud be better than now when Rafa has embarrassed himself in the media, we've bottled it against crap teams at Anfield and we're going backwards while Utd are building a head of steam. Yes, maybe I'd still have taken it on the basis that we may be able to kick on, but we still played Lucas a lot, we still made **** substitutions a lot, we did buy Robbie Keane at 20 million and his ****ness made us feel embarrassed on his behalf as, Gerrard was charged with assault and could miss games, Rafa did reject a contract offer. All combined, I am less than happy with our current situation than with the hypothetical one outlined. Still hope we can kick on but don't expect it.

Agree with a large part of what you say (esp' the bit in bold), but in terms of answering Birdman's original question, I think most of us would have taken our current position if it had been offered to us back in the summer.

[reds123]

In November considering the fixtures whixh lay ahead I (and almost all of us) calculated that in mid January we can be +8 points above Fergie's scum.

But the over cautios approach vs West Ham, Fulham, Hull, Stoke away, the atrocious substitutions vs Arsenal away and yesterday fukced this advantage.

Now we can still say we are there but Rafa's approach to the English game baffles me. Fergie and Wenger are winners because they play confident attacking football. Rafa's team is afraid because even the way he makes substitutions makes us look like the Juventus of Trapattoni (25 years ago).

Also the Kuyt affair is making our attack looks fragile. When Kuyt is alone up front, the opponents can be reassured that we are not going to score! And Rafa like that system! Also the lack of first team action for Babel makes us weak on the counter attack! Also playing average right wing players like Benayoun isn't the way forward for a club like Liverpool. Other teams have Messi, Walcott and Ronaldo! (we have Benayoun or sometimes Kuyt).

And Rafa still continues to play like he is new to the English game.

An honest Liverpool supporter may ask: Why is Robbie Keane always substituted after 60 minutes???

[S-RED]

In November considering the fixtures whixh lay ahead I (and almost all of us) calculated that in mid January we can be +8 points above Fergie's scum.

But the over cautios approach vs West Ham, Fulham, Hull, Stoke away, the atrocious substitutions vs Arsenal away and yesterday fukced this advantage.

Now we can still say we are there but Rafa's approach to the English game baffles me. Fergie and Wenger are winners because they play confident attacking football. Rafa's team is afraid because even the way he makes substitutions makes us look like the Juventus of Trapattoni (25 years ago).

Also the Kuyt affair is making our attack looks fragile. When Kuyt is alone up front, the opponents can be reassured that we are not going to score! And Rafa like that system! Also the lack of first team action for Babel makes us weak on the counter attack! Also playing average right wing players like Benayoun isn't the way forward for a club like Liverpool. Other teams have Messi, Walcott and Ronaldo! (we have Benayoun or sometimes Kuyt).

And Rafa still continues to play like he is new to the English game.

An honest Liverpool supporter may ask: Why is Robbie Keane always substituted after 60 minutes???

If keane had still be on the pitch last night, Gerrard wouldn't have had the space to score. As soon as Kuyt went up front he pulled the centre half away from his position; something that sadly Keane did not do for the preceeding 65mins.

I was very excited when Keane was purchased, but he can't seem to understand what he is required to do & doesn't seem to work with Torres

[Woobus]

Our problem is being clinical this season. we just cant seem to score enough and arent turning draws into wins. this is obvious i think.

I think we are in the top 3 for most goals scored and have more than United, are problem seems to be more consistency. Some games we are amazing and it looks like no one could touch us and then the next we find it hard to string 3 passes together.
Was looking at the league table and was amazed to see United have only scored 10 goals in 11 away games this season. Hopefully they will keep that record going for the rest of the season.

[Craig_H]

We would be top in January level on points with Man U would you have been happy???


I know I would have been delighted.
I'm not dismissing that some home results have been disappointing, I'm not saying that we shouldn't be in a better position now than we are but hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Can you see and acknowledge the progress?? I'm sure someone can find the stats to say how far off the top we've been at this stage of the season over the past 10 years let alone just in Rafa's reign.
We're joint top without Torres featuring much due to injury, how many more points do you think we'd have with him playing in every league game??
You can't as a player have the self belief to say we finished 4th for the last few years, miles of the pace but we'll win it this year, that's just garbage trotted out for interviews, the self belief has to grow with the realisation that you can actually win it, that comes with winning the big games against the other top 3, it comes with being involved right at the very top of the league for a sustained period of time and it comes with the undivided support of the home and travelling fans week in week out.

As for those who want Rafa gone that's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion but when you express it back it up with who you would replace him with that could do a better job, realistically given the fact that he doesn't control the youth set up and can't even decide which players to buy and sell, when to do it and for how much.

We are a club in a massive mess behind the scenes at the moment, to be where we are in the league is nothing short of a miracle when you throw in Parry, Hicks, Gillette, the debt, no stadium, takeover, no takeover and at least 15 years to make up in UK and globel marketing and revenue production.

I'm not throwing in the towel but to go from 20 years of underachievement to winning it the 1st time we're serious, serious contenders is a massive ask.

If you'd told me we'd be SECOND on goal difference by 20th January, but would be in a **** run of form which will see us fall away unless it improves hugely and immediately, no i wouldnt have been delighted.

Being top in January doesnt mean anything if you end up out of the race by February.

[Craig_H]

People will talk about beating United and Chelsea, but if we'd lost both those two games and beaten the ****e (Stoke x2, West Ham, Fulham, Hull City) we'd be 9 points better off than we are now, and 6 points clear.

[red g]

If you'd told me we'd be SECOND on goal difference by 20th January, but would be in a **** run of form which will see us fall away unless it improves hugely and immediately, no i wouldnt have been delighted.

Being top in January doesnt mean anything if you end up out of the race by February.

These are february fixtures......


Wigan v Liverpool, 19:45
Liverpool v Chelsea, 16:00
Portsmouth v Liverpool, 17:30
Liverpool v Man City, 15:00
Middlesbrough v Liverpool

West Brom v Man Utd, 19:45
Man Utd v Everton, 20:00
West Ham v Man Utd, 16:00
Man Utd v Fulham, 20:00
Man Utd v Blackburn, 17:30
Man Utd v Portsmouth, 15:00


One thing is for certain........think we will know our chances by the end of february.......dont think we will be written off though

[Craig_H]

I honestly cant look at ANY of our games there and say confidently, right now, that we'll definitely 'win that one'.

[Kenneth]

Wigan v Liverpool, 19:45
Liverpool v Chelsea, 16:00
Portsmouth v Liverpool, 17:30
Liverpool v Man City, 15:00
Middlesbrough v Liverpool

All losable.