Post Match - Bitters FA Cup

[DannyMan2006]

So Everton defended superbly did they? Maybe they did, but how is it that Liverpool at home continually come up against teas that defend superbly?

Maybe it is a lack of attacking edge that is the real issue. We had tons of possession yet again today, but once again lacked the intelligence to break a team down.

It is so obvious where we are lacking and yet nothing is going to be done about it. What we really need i these situations is two wingers on the pitch who will beat a full back and get a ball in the box, players who will get wide and stretch the play, giving Torres and Gerrard more space to attack. Riera is obviously the left sided option, but we lack a player for the right side.

Kuyt is willing, but can not beat a man, nor can he cross. The problem with Babel on the left is that he can not cross the ball with his left peg, and his only answer is to come inside. I personally would start playing Babel on the right against teams who sit back. A case can be made to play Kuyt against the big teams, but against the likes of Sunderland, Boro, hull, west brom he needs to be on the bench.

It can not be expected of Gerrard and Torres to save us on their own in every game.

I personally would sell Robbie Keane who Rafa is clearly not that happy with, and use the cash to bring in Michael Owen (cover for Torres and starter for certain games) and a quality right sided winger. Mabe the Kuba fellow at Dortmond. Possibly even Bentley.

We will run the title close what ever happens, but a couple of players coming in could give us an even better chance. Because at the moment (Riera aside), we are lacking in the same areas as last season.

[Liverpool]

So Everton defended superbly did they? Maybe they did, but how is it that Liverpool at home continually come up against teas that defend superbly?

Maybe it is a lack of attacking edge that is the real issue. We had tons of possession yet again today, but once again lacked the intelligence to break a team down.

It is so obvious where we are lacking and yet nothing is going to be done about it. What we really need i these situations is two wingers on the pitch who will beat a full back and get a ball in the box, players who will get wide and stretch the play, giving Torres and Gerrard more space to attack. Riera is obviously the left sided option, but we lack a player for the right side.

Kuyt is willing, but can not beat a man, nor can he cross. The problem with Babel on the left is that he can not cross the ball with his left peg, and his only answer is to come inside. I personally would start playing Babel on the right against teams who sit back. A case can be made to play Kuyt against the big teams, but against the likes of Sunderland, Boro, hull, west brom he needs to be on the bench.

It can not be expected of Gerrard and Torres to save us on their own in every game.

I personally would sell Robbie Keane who Rafa is clearly not that happy with, and use the cash to bring in Michael Owen (cover for Torres and starter for certain games) and a quality right sided winger. Mabe the Kuba fellow at Dortmond. Possibly even Bentley.

We will run the title close what ever happens, but a couple of players coming in could give us an even better chance. Because at the moment (Riera aside), we are lacking in the same areas as last season.

Also we sat back once we got the goal, the games we've drawn at home this season, we dont attack from minute one but sit back and expect things to happen. We need new wingers for a new dimension and we lack movement every it static when we have the ball but noone is going to come in , in January.

[Montana]

We played well in these last two games against Everton but have made mistakes defensively which we got punished for. The difference is the mancs have not made the same mistakes.

Kuyt has been better than Babel all season, slightly better than Riera all season and also better than than Benni the lightweight. Yeah he aint great but he's still been the best wide player we have going on goals, assists and sheer ****ing teamwork!

Some people need to chill out. We'll win at Woodison and beat Wigan away.

[Matt]

I thought we were fairly predictable and methodical in attack without ever looking like we had a real cutting edge.

Same could be said about the majority of our home games this year though. I really think Riera can make the difference if he stays close to the line in an advanced position.

[Craig_H]

I thought we were fairly predictable and methodical in attack without ever looking like we had a real cutting edge.

Same could be said about the majority of our home games this year though. I really think Riera can make the difference if he stays close to the line in an advanced position.

The man who can make the most important difference is the manager.

The players are all capable of being more attack minded and creative, but i think they're restricted by a cautious, slow and methodical style that the manager insists on.

If LFC had a chess team, under Rafa, we'd be unbeatable.

[RedReet]

Good performance, poor result. Personally I’m glad we persisted with a patient passing game rather than resort to hoofing the ball. Some are calling it predictable, but never for a second did I worry about the equaliser as long as we were patient and am surprised we didn’t get the winner.

Babel and Kuyt were the weak links, everyone else did fine. Kuyt, as much as he struggled, just like earlier in the season looked a lot better once Riera came on as he knew Riera could retain possession, whip in a cross and allow him to gamble on getting into the box.

Regardless of what those people who enjoy seeing us fail say, if we play like that for the rest of the season we’ll not be too far off. A fully fit Nando or Riera from the start would have made a world of difference today.

[Craig_H]

It wasnt a good performance though.

People can say about us 'controlling' the game and having all the possession, but when a team is happy to let you have possession and control the game, safe in the knowledge that they'll struggle to break you down, it's no achievement to simply have lots of possession.

And the alternative to the slow passing (predictable) game we play isnt to hoof it, it's to inject a bit of tempo and movement. Pass the ball quicker, move quicker and commit the opposition defenders.

If we play like this for the rest of the season, we'll struggle to break down several more sides. It's no coincidence that we've had similar problems at home to teams like Stoke and Hull, Fulham and West Ham. It's a problem to which the consequences have been common.

One last question - who 'enjoys' seeing us fail? That's a lame assessment really. People are pissed off because they hate seeing us fail.

[Matt]

The man who can make the most important difference is the manager.

The players are all capable of being more attack minded and creative, but i think they're restricted by a cautious, slow and methodical style that the manager insists on.

If LFC had a chess team, under Rafa, we'd be unbeatable.

I'm not sure - you're right that we only seem to get going after conceding but I don't think we're deliberately pedestrian, after all we've seen more than enough home draws to warrant a change in attitude from the manager.

It just becomes very easy to defend against us. Torres always has more than one player on him and Kuyt gets boxed into a corner quite a lot, Gerrard seems the only player able to break free of shackles and get about the pitch freely.

It's a puzzling one - we don't seem to have a system that gets the best out of all the players. 4-3-2-1 is the most obvious but when Torres is constantly surrounded it's nullified.

[Craig_H]

I'm not sure - you're right that we only seem to get going after conceding but I don't think we're deliberately pedestrian, after all we've seen more than enough home draws to warrant a change in attitude from the manager.

It just becomes very easy to defend against us. Torres always has more than one player on him and Kuyt gets boxed into a corner quite a lot, Gerrard seems the only player able to break free of shackles and get about the pitch freely.

It's a puzzling one - we don't seem to have a system that gets the best out of all the players. 4-3-2-1 is the most obvious but when Torres is constantly surrounded it's nullified.

Despite the home draws, i think Rafa still emphatically believes in the slow, methodical buildup approach. Dont get me wrong, i'm not saying we should never play like this. But sometimes in football, as in life, you have to change the way you do things, to succeed. Rafa simply wont do that though. He's very strong minded, some may say stubborn, and possibly his success in La Liga means he's never going to question his own methods, but if he doesnt change the methodical approach SOMETIMES, he will never win the Premier League title.

It's not the formation that's wrong, it's the slow and steady approach.

We take an eternity to build an attack and for teams who adopt the everton methods of today, it's easy for them to all get back into position and it makes life much easier for them.

Remember the Kuyt chance today, near the end?

It happened because everton were breaking forward and we won the ball and actually got it forward quickly. We had a 3 on 3 and but for a fairly tame finish, we could've easily scored.

If we broke forward with that kind of pace on a regular basis, we'd rarely find it hard to break teams down.

[rudedog]

[QUOTE=Craig_H;1260869]Despite the home draws, i think Rafa still emphatically believes in the slow, methodical buildup approach. Dont get me wrong, i'm not saying we should never play like this. But sometimes in football, as in life, you have to change the way you do things, to succeed. Rafa simply wont do that though. He's very strong minded, some may say stubborn, and possibly his success in La Liga means he's never going to question his own methods, but if he doesnt change the methodical approach SOMETIMES, he will never win the Premier League title.

It's not the formation that's wrong, it's the slow and steady approach.

We take an eternity to build an attack and for teams who adopt the everton methods of today, it's easy for them to all get back into position and it makes life much easier for them.

Remember the Kuyt chance today, near the end?

It happened because everton were breaking forward and we won the ball and actually got it forward quickly. We had a 3 on 3 and but for a fairly tame finish, we could've easily scored.

If we broke forward with that kind of pace on a regular basis, we'd rarely find it hard to break teams down.[/QUOTE]

Thats just it though, the teams we struggle against are the teams who don't commit men forward so its almost impossible to hit these teams on the break.

[Craig_H]

Thats just it though, the teams we struggle against are the teams who don't commit men forward so its almost impossible to hit these teams on the break.

It's not about hitting teams on the break, it's about moving the ball quickly, playing with tempo and having bodies going forward.

Teams like that do the same against Man Utd, but they usually manage to beat them. Most of the time, it's because they move the ball forward much quicker than us and commit bodies into the opposition box.

[mersey86]

Every match Kuyt and Lucas are given stick no matter what, if Gerrard or Carragher has a bad day, nobody says anything.

Kuyt is a strange one. He was vilified last year, then came good, almost got us to the CL Final, got most people's respect back, then carried that into goal-scoring form this year. He has been the principal hate-target again for a couple of months. I get to see very little of the play with only basic tv out in the States, but I know enough about Kuyt from his Feyenoord reputation and his Liverpool critics that he gives 100%, he never hides. I like that sort of player, but I can understand some frustration.
We lack cutting edge. Why is that? Possibly because we've had our star striker out of action or recuperating for most of the season, because our 20m striker has failed to adjust, because Babel has had a stinker of a season. And yet we are still right in the mix. What I find hard to accept is people who seem to have their agendas against certain players - there is a moment when it crosses over from frustration to ceasing to support that player in a red shirt. I think many of our fans have crossed that line and its a dangerous one to cross.
Most of us don't have rose-tinted glasses, we are frustrated too, but we are looking forward in the knowledge that our team traditionally does improve as the season reaches its final months and that carping on about the same thing week after week (wallowing in it even) is not helping anybody.

[Craig_H]

I think people need to identify that there's a difference between stating a player's weaknesses, and 'giving them stick' or 'slating' them.

Kuyt IS limited as a footballer. He lacks pace, his first touch is often found wanting, and his finishing isnt clinical. That's not slating him, it's simply telling it as it is.

I like the guy and admire his attitude and professionalism immensely, there's nothing to dislike about him personally. In terms of footballing ability though, and when it comes to being a title winning side, he isnt quite upto scratch as an attacking player in the first team of a side who wants to win the league.

carping on about the same thing week after week (wallowing in it even) is not helping anybody.

To be fair, when the same problems are continuing to cost us week after week, it's going to be talked about.

[mersey86]

Talk about it, OK. Use some of the language I have seen about a Liverpool player, especially about a current Liverpool player whose attitude cannot be questioned - not OK, at least not by me its not. We all want the best for Liverpool and we have different ways of showing it - some people express their frustrations through these forums and then get on with life. Some people ... well I get the opinion that some people thrive on being miserable ... no names, and certainly not you Craig.

[MrMichael]

Well said Mersey86

SO what's the issue now? We cannot criticise a player if we don't like them? You might get banned for pointing out that a particular player has got the first touch of a rapist and is not good enough to play for Liverpool - which is not made up for the fact that he always tries his best?

The fat kid at school always tried his best at the cross country run but he never won any medals.

I do like Kuyt but he has been woeful for sometime now. I wouldn't blame him for everything but if someone wants to have an opinion of them then surely we shouldn't police everything they say just because you don't agree with it?

No, not in the slightest, when well people on this site get it into their skulls that there is a enormous difference between criticism of a Liverpool player, and outight abuse of them? Its nothing to do with opinions, its to do with the manner in which they are expressed - posters on this site agree to its rules when they register, and are therefore expected to maintain a basic standard of respect for the club and those who pull on the red shirt, which is quite clearly not the case when people are posting disgraceful comments of the type which had to be deleted from the match thread yesterday, something which is having to happen all to frequently at the moment.

Allow me to provide some examples - "Benitez made a huge mistake and his position as manager should be seriously in question" = an opinion. "Benitez is a fat Spanish ****wit" - unacceptable abuse. "Dirk Kuyt adds nothing to the team and should be sold" - an opinion. "I hope that ****ing moron Kuyt dies" = a ban and good ridance. And no, I'm not exaggerating, that's the sort of ****e some people seem to think is acceptable to post on here because we didn't win a game. Well it isn't, not on this site anyway.

Anyone who disagrees with that policy is welcome to let the door hit them on their way out.