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    Attack, attack, attack attack attack.

    Manu broke a Premier League record last night for the most consecutive number of minutes played without conceding a goal. Pretty impressive when you consider their defence and midfield. Ferdinand has been missing a fair few games, and although they have Vidic, i'd hardly class Evans or O'Shea as world class. Evra is better going forward than he is at getting back and they don't really play with an out and out defensive midfielder ala Mascherano. Carrick can does a similar job there, but he's a very important distributor of the ball, whereas Mash is there for us purely to defend. Van der Sar is a god keeper, but not as good as Reina. So how do they have such a good defensive record when they seem to focus so much on attacking? Well, isn't that the answer? To attack more? Isn't offence the best form of defence, as they say? It's hard to score against an opponent who is relentlessly knocking at your door. You constantly have one eye on defending in sheer fear of conceding a goal.

    We have a more defensive attitude and line up than Manu, and certainly a more defensive and cautious coach in Rafa. We have a solid back four (apart from LB) and we almost always have a purely defensive mid or two sat in front of the back four helping them out. Kuyt gets a lot of game time as he is just as good running backwards as he is forwards. Even Babel seems more defensively minded now, in that he seems more aware of tracking back. Gerrard is great at playing AM but he can also do some very valuable defending, as can and does Alonso. It's all very well having **** loads of possession if you actually do something with it, but we constantly seem to fanny about and take numerous passes sideways or backwards before we manage to get to a genuinely threatening position. How many out and out attacking players do we have? Do we really need to be that defensively minded? It's difficult to get our wide men to really attack, as they are hardly world class. Riera has done a good job, but will never really set the world alight. Kuyt is average at best, so he may as well spend more time tracking back. With more attacking and skillful wide players, it would be easier to attack and more fruitful too. It makes me wonder whether Rafa knows this and so rather than really committing to attacking, he tends to err on the side of caution as Kuyt and Riera, well, they can't really attack that well. But then he shouldn't have bought them.

    With regards to Babel, I feel he was a better player last season than this, as Rafa has more than likely worked on his defensive responsibilities. He seems to be that type of coach. He just loves hard working players who will die for the cause and run their hearts out to prevent us conceding a goal, and hopefully somewhere along the line, maybe just possibly score one. Our defence seems to have always been the priority with Rafa, and he has always had it pretty much sorted, but the final third has always seemed to have eluded him. I actually thought after the battering of Bolton and Newcastle that maybe Rafa had finally got us to click in the final third, but after the last few displays against an admittedly well organised side, it would appear that he has not. We created very little. Apart from the telepathic link between Gerrard and Torres, there is little cutting edge, creativity, guile and few players who can really make that one killer pass or take a couple of men on and score or set up a sitter. The players that tend to give you these qualities are often more of a liability defensively, which Rafa does not like.

    Whether it's down to Rafa buying the wrong sort of players (Kuyt, Riera) or the fact that he simply can't coach them to have the same sort of style of play or understanding that the Manu or Arsenal players have is up for debate. Personally, I think it's both. As long as we remain this way, it will always be a struggle to win the league. I'm not saying we won't, but it would be much easier if we had more balance. Attack, attack, attack attack attack...
    President of the Ban Smileys Society

    #2
    There you go...

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      #3
      Enjoyed that read. Agree with the overarching theory.
      "Sir, it's me sir. Jennings sir."

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        #4
        We just don't have the quality of attackers like Utd, there 2-3 players better than us in that one and only department.

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          #5
          Attack is the best type of defence. That and ****ting scared the opponents because you are United. We are Liverpool so teams like Tottenham, Everton will always feel they have a chance. And Rafa is very negative especially at home, widen the pitch and get some variation of crosses, not the same front post which leads to a pointless corner or throw in.

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            #6
            We need a Souness type player. Someone who will but a curse on his opposite number then score the winning goal. Oh and must have a moustache.

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              #7
              rafa is by nature a defensive minded coach. Tha'ts why the likes of Cara and Co. have improved so much under Rafa, he tends to focus more on defense hence the slight tilt towards defending and counter attack. Ferguson is the oppsite...more offensive minded
              Cheers

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                #8
                I think you are underestimating the quality of Utds back line, and cental midfield. Good keeper too.

                However, over the season they've conceeded 3 less than Chelsea and 4 less than us. That is a pretty small difference and the fact that the clean sheets were consecutive is probably a lot down to luck. Our clean sheet record over the last couple of seasons is second to none. Riena kept 14 clean sheets a couple of years ago.
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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Bari View Post
                  We just don't have the quality of attackers like Utd, there 2-3 players better than us in that one and only department.
                  Is there really that much of a difference? Enough to stop us playing a more attacking style? We have one of the best passers of the ball in Alonso. Gerrard and Torres are both genuinely world class attacking talents. They'd displace any of Manu's players. Keane has been scoring and creating plenty the last two seasons. over 20 goals both seasons and 7 or 8 assists too. It's only the wings that we lack, but is that really enough to stop us attacking the hell out of most teams? I don't think so. I wonder how well someone like Hiddink would do with the same squad...
                  President of the Ban Smileys Society

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                    #10
                    Stastically whenever we have attacked and scored goals, we have conceded. Think back to the Wigan and Man City games. However, I put that down to other teams not being afraid enough of us. The more we keep attacking with the likes of Torres, Gerrard, Alonso and even Babel the less the opposing teams will fancy their chances.

                    Rafa needs to get this into his tactical mindframe. Defence is not the best form of offence, sometimes its not even a good form of defence. Even during the teething stages of this policy the worst case scenario is we'd win, lose, win, lose, win games. That's 9 points out of 15 - pretty respectable considering a bedding in period.
                    Last edited by BigChief; 28-01-09, 05:06 PM.
                    One tit for another.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Baldemort View Post
                      Manu broke a Premier League record last night for the most consecutive number of minutes played without conceding a goal. Pretty impressive when you consider their defence and midfield. Ferdinand has been missing a fair few games, and although they have Vidic, i'd hardly class Evans or O'Shea as world class. Evra is better going forward than he is at getting back and they don't really play with an out and out defensive midfielder ala Mascherano. Carrick can does a similar job there, but he's a very important distributor of the ball, whereas Mash is there for us purely to defend. Van der Sar is a god keeper, but not as good as Reina. So how do they have such a good defensive record when they seem to focus so much on attacking?
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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Operation View Post
                        I think you are underestimating the quality of Utds back line, and cental midfield. Good keeper too.

                        However, over the season they've conceeded 3 less than Chelsea and 4 less than us. That is a pretty small difference and the fact that the clean sheets were consecutive is probably a lot down to luck. Our clean sheet record over the last couple of seasons is second to none. Riena kept 14 clean sheets a couple of years ago.
                        Agree , but it's in attack they really hold the aces, with 5 of the best quality attackers around, attackers anyone could have signed, had they been able to attract them, but Vidic (a player Rafa wanted) is an excellent defender, as is Ferdinand unfortunately.
                        Last edited by Vermilion; 28-01-09, 05:15 PM.

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Baldemort View Post
                          Is there really that much of a difference? Enough to stop us playing a more attacking style? We have one of the best passers of the ball in Alonso. Gerrard and Torres are both genuinely world class attacking talents. They'd displace any of Manu's players. Keane has been scoring and creating plenty the last two seasons. over 20 goals both seasons and 7 or 8 assists too. It's only the wings that we lack, but is that really enough to stop us attacking the hell out of most teams? I don't think so. I wonder how well someone like Hiddink would do with the same squad...
                          When attacking or counter-attacking we have Torres & Gerrard 1st choice, no if & buts on Babel, keane, kyut, riera, benayoun.

                          They have, Ronaldo, Tevez/Rooney, Bervatov, Giggs/Nani on any given sunday
                          Last edited by Bari; 28-01-09, 05:24 PM.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Bari View Post
                            When attacking or counter-attacking we have Torres & Gerrard 1st choice, no if & buts on Babel, keane, kyut, riera, benayoun.

                            They have, Ronaldo, Tevez/Rooney, Bervatov, Giggs/Nani on any given sunday

                            I wish Keane, Kuyt and Babel would be more productive.

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by Bari View Post
                              When attacking or counter-attacking we have Torres & Gerrard 1st choice, no if & buts on Babel, keane, kyut, riera, benayoun.

                              They have, Ronaldo, Tevez/Rooney, Bervatov, Giggs/Nani on any given sunday

                              Out of that lot, it's only really the first three that you mention that are setting the world alight. Torres and Gerrard would walk into that line up. Keane needs to be managed correctly, and if this happens, there is nothing to stop him managing his previous goal/assist tallies. It's only the wide areas we fall back on. Unfortunately, that 'only' involves Ronaldo vs Kuyt. They do have better players, but I don't think there's that much of a difference. It's more to do with how they are coached and the mentality of the manager.
                              President of the Ban Smileys Society

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