Time to zip it

[Nic83]

That reminds me I need a new remote for me sky digital. Also, I fancy a sausage roll with tomato sauce from me local

[Craig_H]

If you are referring to me there than that is completely inaccurate.

Virtually every single one of your posts seemed to be an argument to the contrary. No qualms with defending the manager, but sometimes, if you're chest deep in sea, you kinda have to just accept that you've got wet.

[Reece]

Virtually every single one of your posts seemed to be an argument to the contrary. No qualms with defending the manager, but sometimes, if you're chest deep in sea, you kinda have to just accept that you've got wet.

FLMAO. Coming from the guy who literally goes through every thread on here and starts as many arguments as possible that's pretty funny.

You'll find I haven't actually made many posts relating to last night, and my position on the manager, so I'm not sure how you've come to that conlclusion. I was too busy clearing up all the ****e being posted on here to post my own thoughts.

I've said elsewhere I think both the manager and players are badly underperforming at the moment and that needs to be remedied quickly (but I see no reason why it shouldn't. I apologise if that is contrary and needlessly optimistic). My point in this thread is that people are trying to make a big issues out of what is really nothing, when they don't even know it to be true.

[Woobus]

And some are trying to find ANY alternative explanation but the one that seems most likely.

Never mind what he said, what he meant or anything else. If people want to find something to criticise Rafa with, our recent results are there in black and white. Nothing else is needed.

I dont see the point and need to be blaming anyone at the minute, at the end of the season is when we need to look at how we have performed and if the players and Rafa should still be at the club.
Everyone from the fans, players, Rafa, Parry and the owners need to get their act together and start pulling in the same direction.

[Craig_H]

FLMAO. Coming from the guy who literally goes through every thread on here and starts as many arguments as possible that's pretty funny.

You'll find I haven't actually made many posts relating to last night, and my position on the manager, so I'm not sure how you've come to that conlclusion. I was too busy clearing up all the ****e being posted on here to post my own thoughts.

I've said elsewhere I think both the manager and players are badly underperforming at the moment and that needs to be remedied quickly (but I see no reason why it shouldn't. I apologise if that is contrary and needlessly optimistic). My point in this thread is that people are trying to make a big issues out of what is really nothing, when they don't even know it to be true.

I didnt mean arguments in that sense, i meant 'points'.

If you genuinely think i "go through every thread on here and starts as many arguments as possible" then my opinion of you as being a highly intelligent poster is maybe off the mark. I think i've made about 3 or 4 posts since last night, so if i did actually "go through every thread on here and starts as many arguments as possible" then i'd have had a field day by now. Perhaps you might wish to reassess that viewpoint of yours.

I certainly accept that your contributions are nowhere near wholly what i described. But in this particular case (as well as a few), it's patently clear that Rafa was having a pop at Wigan for their so called 'physical' style and people have identified this to be the case. Why you feel so strongly that he wasnt doing so, is beyond me as it's pretty obvious.

With Everton, it was the embarrassing 'only one team tried to win' stuff, and now this. It's reached the point that with every poor result, he's scraping the bottom of the barrel to find an excuse. Anything but accept that he got it wrong, which he doesnt seem to ever think is a realistic possibility.

Anyway, i digress and have waffled on too much here. I dont think there's much more to be said of our plight than has already been posted.

I'm off to start as many arguments as possible.

[Craig_H]

I dont see the point and need to be blaming anyone at the minute, at the end of the season is when we need to look at how we have performed and if the players and Rafa should still be at the club.
Everyone from the fans, players, Rafa, Parry and the owners need to get their act together and start pulling in the same direction.

I've been banging on about Rafa's negative and cautious habits for longer than i care to remember. People always look like they want to wait until it's too late before they (or some of them) eventually end up agreeing. Of course some dont and that's fine, it's all just opinions.

But i'd just like the situations to be addressed BEFORE it's too late, just once in a while. 'At the end of the season' is just another point by which the damage will have already been done beyond repair.

As far as i can see, the biggest portion of blame by far sits squarely at the manager's doorstep. The players are good enough in the majority and if they're not performing, the manager's the one whose responsibility it is to get them doing so. Absurd substitutions and decisions dont help.

Almost every problem i can see goes right back to the manager.

[PTP]

I didnt mean arguments in that sense, i meant 'points'.

If you genuinely think i "go through every thread on here and starts as many arguments as possible" then my opinion of you as being a highly intelligent poster is maybe off the mark. I think i've made about 3 or 4 posts since last night, so if i did actually "go through every thread on here and starts as many arguments as possible" then i'd have had a field day by now. Perhaps you might wish to reassess that viewpoint of yours.

I certainly accept that your contributions are nowhere near wholly what i described. But in this particular case (as well as a few), it's patently clear that Rafa was having a pop at Wigan for their so called 'physical' style and people have identified this to be the case. Why you feel so strongly that he wasnt doing so, is beyond me as it's pretty obvious.

With Everton, it was the embarrassing 'only one team tried to win' stuff, and now this. It's reached the point that with every poor result, he's scraping the bottom of the barrel to find an excuse. Anything but accept that he got it wrong, which he doesnt seem to ever think is a realistic possibility.

Anyway, i digress and have waffled on too much here. I dont think there's much more to be said of our plight than has already been posted.

I'm off to start as many arguments as possible.

to be fair - he's got u by the balls reece! haha bite

[Reece]

I didnt mean arguments in that sense, i meant 'points'.

If you genuinely think i "go through every thread on here and starts as many arguments as possible" then my opinion of you as being a highly intelligent poster is maybe off the mark. I think i've made about 3 or 4 posts since last night, so if i did actually "go through every thread on here and starts as many arguments as possible" then i'd have had a field day by now. Perhaps you might wish to reassess that viewpoint of yours.

I certainly accept that your contributions are nowhere near wholly what i described. But in this particular case (as well as a few), it's patently clear that Rafa was having a pop at Wigan for their so called 'physical' style and people have identified this to be the case. Why you feel so strongly that he wasnt doing so, is beyond me as it's pretty obvious.

With Everton, it was the embarrassing 'only one team tried to win' stuff, and now this. It's reached the point that with every poor result, he's scraping the bottom of the barrel to find an excuse. Anything but accept that he got it wrong, which he doesnt seem to ever think is a realistic possibility.

Anyway, i digress and have waffled on too much here. I dont think there's much more to be said of our plight than has already been posted.

I'm off to start as many arguments as possible.

Okay I concede you haven't done so since last night, but I feel you do what I described on a fairly regular basis. I didn't say there was necesarily anything wrong with that I just felt your comment about me was somewhat hypocritical. So I won't completely reassess my opinion on that no. If that lowers your opinion of my intelligence then I'll guess I'll just have to live with that. dribbles

As for the physical issue - I haven't actually said that this wasn't the case, but I feel/felt that people were basing it on a comment made by the BBC, rather than what Rafa actually said. I think we can agree that Rafa usually says what he feels, so why would he not just come out and say it on this occasion? Anyway whether that is what he meant or not, it just seemed like people saying "oh look something else we can use to slag him off about" which is why I felt the need to comment (as a poster not a mod I must point out).

I completely agree that Rafa has been getting plenty wrong recently. Perhaps your opinion of me that I always post to the contrary, whilst being wrong, is because I tend not to want to post about these things, but rather talk about the positives. That doesn't mean I'm blind to them or whatever, it just because I'm an optmistic person and whatever happens in life whether it's football related or not I always try and look on the brightside.

Anyway, lets not make this a personal thing between us

[Craig_H]

Okay I concede you haven't done so since last night, but I feel you do what I described on a fairly regular basis. I didn't say there was necesarily anything wrong with that I just felt your comment about me was somewhat hypocritical. So I won't completely reassess my opinion on that no. If that lowers your opinion of my intelligence then I'll guess I'll just have to live with that. dribbles

As for the physical issue - I haven't actually said that this wasn't the case, but I feel/felt that people were basing it on a comment made by the BBC, rather than what Rafa actually said. I think we can agree that Rafa usually says what he feels, so why would he not just come out and say it on this occasion? Anyway whether that is what he meant or not, it just seemed like people saying "oh look something else we can use to slag him off about" which is why I felt the need to comment (as a poster not a mod I must point out).

I completely agree that Rafa has been getting plenty wrong recently. Perhaps your opinion of me that I always post to the contrary, whilst being wrong, is because I tend not to want to post about these things, but rather talk about the positives. That doesn't mean I'm blind to them or whatever, it just because I'm an optmistic person and whatever happens in life whether it's football related or not I always try and look on the brightside.

Anyway, lets not make this a personal thing between us

Not a personal thing at all mate, i think very highly of you as a poster and that's why i can actually have the will to be upfront and honest with you if i think you're wrong about something.

As for me, i certainly dont have 'starting as many arguments as possible' as my 'gameplan' or anything I genuinely do not go about with the intention of riling people or starting anything, i just say what i think and defend my points, sometimes perhaps in a less than lovey-dovey way. But there's sincerely no intention to just start **** on the site. Believe it or not, i'm a bit too grown up for that.

People dont really need to look very hard right now, if they want something to slag the manager off with. So i really dont think there's a case for saying that they're making something out of nothing. If you genuinely dont think Rafa was trying to make a point of Wigan apparently being too over physical, then that's fair enough. I think it's emphatically clear that he was, but everyone's free to think independently, of course.

I admire your optimism. I dont personally look at my own points as being in the 'optimistic' camp or the 'pessimistic' one, i just think that i say what i feel is genuinely true at the time, rather than thinking "i'm going to look at this positively/negatively' etc.

Anyway, i'm philosophical about the whole thing now. Part of me realises we're still in a title race and that a lot can happen, but experience tells me not to expect us to catch the mancs and i dont expect us to, so once i've reached this point of no expectation, the lows are ever so slightly less painful.

[Reece]

Not a personal thing at all mate, i think very highly of you as a poster and that's why i can actually have the will to be upfront and honest with you if i think you're wrong about something.

As for me, i certainly dont have 'starting as many arguments as possible' as my 'gameplan' or anything I genuinely do not go about with the intention of riling people or starting anything, i just say what i think and defend my points, sometimes perhaps in a less than lovey-dovey way. But there's sincerely no intention to just start **** on the site. Believe it or not, i'm a bit too grown up for that.

People dont really need to look very hard right now, if they want something to slag the manager off with. So i really dont think there's a case for saying that they're making something out of nothing. If you genuinely dont think Rafa was trying to make a point of Wigan apparently being too over physical, then that's fair enough. I think it's emphatically clear that he was, but everyone's free to think independently, of course.

I admire your optimism. I dont personally look at my own points as being in the 'optimistic' camp or the 'pessimistic' one, i just think that i say what i feel is genuinely true at the time, rather than thinking "i'm going to look at this positively/negatively' etc.

Anyway, i'm philosophical about the whole thing now. Part of me realises we're still in a title race and that a lot can happen, but experience tells me not to expect us to catch the mancs and i dont expect us to, so once i've reached this point of no expectation, the lows are ever so slightly less painful.

I'm not suggesting in the slightest you do it to wind people up, or to stir or anything like that. You obviously enjoy it to do it so much, and obviously the main reason you are here is to discuss Liverpool so fair play in that regard. You more often than not put your point across well. Sometimes though it seems like it becomes a case of seeing an argument through to the bitter end for the sake of it. But as I said let's not make this personal anyway.

To be honest I don't think I ever really felt we would win the title this season, even when we were leading the pack (despite my aforementioned optmistic outlook ). Obviously there was cause for excitement but I don't believe (and that's not just because of the poor results this season) we are the finished article yet. I am however still of the belief that Rafa can bring us the title. Perhaps not this season mind you but some point soon. He certainly needs to look at himself and some of his decisions though

[Woobus]

But i'd just like the situations to be addressed BEFORE it's too late, just once in a while. 'At the end of the season' is just another point by which the damage will have already been done beyond repair.

I dont see blaming people on an internet forum is going to address anything at Anfield. The best way to address these issues is for everyone at Anfield to start pulling in the same direction and to get the results back on track.

The only other way to address these issues is to sack Rafa now and let Sammy Lee take over for the rest of the season. We have seen how Sammy was as a manager and dont think it would be the best way forward.

Its weird it seems the same people are slagging Rafa for buying the wrong players and then in a different thread they are saying the players are good enough and its Rafas management. (by the way not including you here)

I think one of the problems we have at the minute is Rafas contract. It happened last year and it happened when Fergi said he was going to retire. Managers dont seem to have the same level of authority when there job is not certain and results seem to get effected by it.