Transfer failures !

[dww]

I can see the point you are making in that even though everyone goes on about Wenger as the great low spender there have been times when he has spent big and made little impact on the team (a good example is Wiltord - decent player but didn't really improve the team).

I think the fundamental thing is that the most successful teams in the league either have had a huge cash injection at one stage (Chelsea) or have grown slowly. O'Neill probably had the quickest ascendancy but he has not had to challenge or aim for winning anything every year which means he has always been able to look purely to the future and had a supportive chairman/owner. Even though Rafa has been here a while I think that the investment put in is only just really bearing fruit and that the cost given that we have won some things in the mean time has been pretty reasonable.

[Craig_H]

arsenal, chelsea and scum all have had has many flops........ but its just the stick for benitez to get beaten with

Maybe it's because they've won the Premier League...

[Woobus]

I can see the point you are making in that even though everyone goes on about Wenger as the great low spender there have been times when he has spent big and made little impact on the team (a good example is Wiltord - decent player but didn't really improve the team).

Yup not trying to make out he isnt top class when signing players but some bad flops. Here is the article here with all his transfers. The man really knows how to get a bargain cant take that away from him

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1139863/You-price-silver--Spurs-spent-150million-bitter-rivals-Arsenal-Gunners-won-big-pots.html?ITO=1490

[Craig_H]

Absolutely

If that's an extensive list of his biggest failures, 11 players sold on for a total loss that's less than Chelsea lose on almost every player they sign, its not a bad record at all. The issue, if someone wants to make one out of Rafa's transfer dealings is not loss made on players, but arguably the simple number of those who've come and gone without doing much on the pitch.

I think people are missing the point somewhat.

If the object of our existence was to make as little loss on flops as possible, we'd be fine.

It's not about that though, it's not really about how much they cost and how much they were sold on for. It's about the fact that they werent good enough and that the sum of all of Benitez's parts, everything he's done, hasnt yielded a PL title or even a real challenge.

It's a results driven business and until he wins the league, his record (transfers, tactics, formations, team selections, substitutions and even media comments) will ALL be scrutinised and ultimately, he'll get criticism because he hasnt done what he was brought here to do (yet).

With every one of Mourinho, Ferguson and Wenger, you can pinpoint poor signings and poor decisions, and each of them can turn around and say "Whatever you might think, i've won x PL titles". Rafa cant.

It's as simple as that.

[babylon]

I think people are missing the point somewhat.

.

You, sir, are the one missing the point. There was a clear agenda by the author of the article to ridicule Rafa Benitez by using factoids and spurious statistics, popular media opinion and general WUMery. All of which could have easily been applied to Wanger, Mourinho and scum features.

You are correct in pointing out that He hasn't won the premier league in his time here (yet), but then nor has Wanger. The Chavs haven't won the Champions League, nor has Wanger.

I fail to see what Rafa has done other than not to pander to the beying mass of the media scrums worthless insight into how a football team should be managed on the resources available to him with the opposition we are up against. The toughhest opposition in the world for the last 4 years at least.

The English top league is the toughest to win by a country mile (Three semi finalists in the CL last year, the same the year before I think).

To try to make Rafa look like some kind of village idiot by citing a few mediocre transfer dealings (which, incidentally he didn't happen to spunk a whole load of cash on) is frankly just daft.

[nineteen]

A very subjective piece, there's no definition of what constitutes a failure in the author's eyes.

Bellamy, Morientes, Pennant and Gonzalez are justified, the rest is just desperation.

[Craig_H]

You, sir, are the one missing the point. There was a clear agenda by the author of the article to ridicule Rafa Benitez by using factoids and spurious statistics, popular media opinion and general WUMery. All of which could have easily been applied to Wanger, Mourinho and scum features.

You are correct in pointing out that He hasn't won the premier league in his time here (yet), but then nor has Wanger. The Chavs haven't won the Champions League, nor has Wanger.

I fail to see what Rafa has done other than not to pander to the beying mass of the media scrums worthless insight into how a football team should be managed on the resources available to him with the opposition we are up against. The toughhest opposition in the world for the last 4 years at least.

The English top league is the toughest to win by a country mile (Three semi finalists in the CL last year, the same the year before I think).

To try to make Rafa look like some kind of village idiot by citing a few mediocre transfer dealings (which, incidentally he didn't happen to spunk a whole load of cash on) is frankly just daft.

Bingo.

The press write daft ****e in order to get a reaction. Time and time again, people bite on, and it's what they want.

Not sure who Wanger is, but Arsene Wenger has won the Premier League on a few occasions.

As for missing the point, i'm not sure about that. Unless you actually do think our objective is to make money on transfers, as opposed to trying to win the league?

[RedReet]

You, sir, are the one missing the point. There was a clear agenda by the author of the article to ridicule Rafa Benitez by using factoids and spurious statistics, popular media opinion and general WUMery. All of which could have easily been applied to Wanger, Mourinho and scum features.

You are correct in pointing out that He hasn't won the premier league in his time here (yet), but then nor has Wanger. The Chavs haven't won the Champions League, nor has Wanger.

I fail to see what Rafa has done other than not to pander to the beying mass of the media scrums worthless insight into how a football team should be managed on the resources available to him with the opposition we are up against. The toughhest opposition in the world for the last 4 years at least.

The English top league is the toughest to win by a country mile (Three semi finalists in the CL last year, the same the year before I think).

To try to make Rafa look like some kind of village idiot by citing a few mediocre transfer dealings (which, incidentally he didn't happen to spunk a whole load of cash on) is frankly just daft.

[wiw]

I think people are missing the point somewhat.

If the object of our existence was to make as little loss on flops as possible, we'd be fine.

It's not about that though, it's not really about how much they cost and how much they were sold on for. It's about the fact that they werent good enough and that the sum of all of Benitez's parts, everything he's done, hasnt yielded a PL title or even a real challenge.

It's a results driven business and until he wins the league, his record (transfers, tactics, formations, team selections, substitutions and even media comments) will ALL be scrutinised and ultimately, he'll get criticism because he hasnt done what he was brought here to do (yet).

With every one of Mourinho, Ferguson and Wenger, you can pinpoint poor signings and poor decisions, and each of them can turn around and say "Whatever you might think, i've won x PL titles". Rafa cant.

It's as simple as that.

I agree, but everyone overlooks the thinking behind a lot of them. The transfers we're talking about weren't meant to be League-winning ones. Who the **** wins the league with Bellamy up front? We needed someone with pace up front and within our budget, just one example

We've always been a 5 year rebuilding process ever since Rafa joined. Rafa and Ayesteran before him were always honest and realistic about our chances and I remember reading an interview with the latter about how we weren't ready to win the league. The signings to judge him on are the recent ones and future ones

[Craig_H]

I agree, but everyone overlooks the thinking behind a lot of them. The transfers we're talking about weren't meant to be League-winning ones. Who the **** wins the league with Bellamy up front? We needed someone with pace up front and within our budget, just one example

We've always been a 5 year rebuilding process ever since Rafa joined. Rafa and Ayesteran before him were always honest and realistic about our chances and I remember reading an interview with the latter about how we weren't ready to win the league. The signings to judge him on are the recent ones and future ones

I dont dispute that mate. I'd even forget about the transfers and the signings and just pinpoint one outright thing to look at - a title challenge/win or lack thereof.

Not fussed about all the little things, it's just the ultimate objective that i'm interested in. Who he signs, how much they cost and how much they fetch when sold is all of a far more minor level of significance, in comparison.

[Shaggy]

Not sure who Wanger is, but Arsene Wenger has won the Premier League on a few occasions.

He said Wenger hadn't won it during Rafa's time here.

There's not much Rafa can do about stuff that happened before he arrived.

[1 True Red]

[QUOTE=ShaggyAlonso;1274761]He said Wenger hadn't won it during Rafa's time here.

There's not much Rafa can do about stuff that happened before he arrived.[/QUOTE]

[Craig_H]

He said Wenger hadn't won it during Rafa's time here.

There's not much Rafa can do about stuff that happened before he arrived.

Did he say that? It wasnt clear.

Obviously your second sentence goes without saying, nobody would argue that.

[Charly]

The guy did actually quadruple our money on Djimi Traore, which for me makes him a genius.

[Baldemort]

I think people are missing the point somewhat.

If the object of our existence was to make as little loss on flops as possible, we'd be fine.

It's not about that though, it's not really about how much they cost and how much they were sold on for. It's about the fact that they werent good enough and that the sum of all of Benitez's parts, everything he's done, hasnt yielded a PL title or even a real challenge.

It's a results driven business and until he wins the league, his record (transfers, tactics, formations, team selections, substitutions and even media comments) will ALL be scrutinised and ultimately, he'll get criticism because he hasnt done what he was brought here to do (yet).

With every one of Mourinho, Ferguson and Wenger, you can pinpoint poor signings and poor decisions, and each of them can turn around and say "Whatever you might think, i've won x PL titles". Rafa cant.

It's as simple as that.

I'd say that's pretty much spot on, apart from the fact that most would argue that Rafa needs a little more time before we can truly have a dig at him for not winning the Prem. Fergie took a while etc.