Youth

[Baldemort]

Rafa has won a lot of acclaim for what he has managed to do with our great club. There is no doubt that we are progressing under him, and are closer to the title this season than we have been in a very long while. Who knows how much easier things may have been without all the off the field antics. But one aspect of his reign which leaves me underwhelmed is our youth system. Rafa's been here for a few years now, and the only real star to emerge as a possible regular first team player is Insua. Compare this to Manu and Arsenal. Is it fair to say that Rafa is not as good as nurturing young talent than Fergie or Wenger? This is not a bash Rafa thread. I thought about whilst posting in the Lucas thread. The topic moved onto Dossena and it was mentioned that he has improved of late, which is a fair comment. But, personally I would prefer it if Insua kept improving and made LB his own. Why? It sends a signal out to young players elsewhere looking for a decent team to move to. Why go to Liverpool if their youngsters never get a chance, or if the development they get is not as good as it may be at Arsenal or Manu?

Your thoughts please folks.

[Mattshark]

Rafa has won a lot of acclaim for what he has managed to do with our great club. There is no doubt that we are progressing under him, and are closer to the title this season than we have been in a very long while. Who knows how much easier things may have been without all the off the field antics. But one aspect of his reign which leaves me underwhelmed is our youth system. Rafa's been here for a few years now, and the only real star to emerge as a possible regular first team player is Insua. Compare this to Manu and Arsenal. Is it fair to say that Rafa is not as good as nurturing young talent than Fergie or Wenger? This is not a bash Rafa thread. I thought about whilst posting in the Lucas thread. The topic moved onto Dossena and it was mentioned that he has improved of late, which is a fair comment. But, personally I would prefer it if Insua kept improving and made LB his own. Why? It sends a signal out to young players elsewhere looking for a decent team to move to. Why go to Liverpool if their youngsters never get a chance, or if the development they get is not as good as it may be at Arsenal or Manu?

Your thoughts please folks.

I think it is not early enough to tell. He has brought in a lot of young players but these players are still very young. Ferguson got lucky with a good collection of players in the early nineties. However there has been nothing since then. Wenger has the reputation but apart from Ashley Cole who has come up to be a big name player? Insua and El Zhar are both in the first team, El Zhar mainly as a sub. But I do not think Rafa likes to rush players into first team action.

[wiw]

I don't know the state of Utd/Arsenals youth systems when Wenger and Fergie joined but I doubt they were as bad as ours was. The two of them both had years and years to instill their footballing philosophy, whereas Rafa still seems to be only just truely getting success in this respect in the first team, let alone the youth (imo). I think for a youngster to come through they not only have to show ability (there's no denying the ability of Pacheco, Nemeth etc) but also the mentality and discipline and positional sense you need to really impact the 1st team in the long-term. What's the point in coming into the first team and having a horror game, only to disappear again because you weren't quite ready?

Plus everyone is so desperate for a win every week that it mustn't be easy introducing youngsters. If they do well it's great, if they're **** it's usually "well Rafa bought them, Rafa is ****e" etc. He can't win

Plus the divisions in the club are well documented, so he doesn't seem to have full control over the u18s and downwards so this may be hindering the progress of some of them

[Shanks]

Paragraphs?

[Baldemort]

I don't know much about Fergie and Manu but with the exception of Giggs, Beckham, the Nevilles etc I can think of Wes Brown, O'Shea, Evans and now the Da Silva twins. They may not be great, but they've made the first team.

Wenger - Anelka, Cole, Cesc, Clichy. Anelka and Cesc are class, as was Cole when he was at the Arse. Clichy is a good LB too.

[andrewces38]

Paragraphs?

The fact that rafa wants more control over the acedemy suggests that he hasnt had much control of the future liverpool player .if he has a big part of the reserves and under 18s ( who are in the quarter finals of FA cup) suggests that the future is looking pretty good.young INCE looks a real good player at only 16, nemeth is touted as a regular sub for next year at least .pacheco looks a bright prospect and many more so here's hope that the future is good............it takes a lot of time to bring this to fruititon so hopefully in 3 years we will see this and let Rafa have his control of the academy stability we want now ,heres hoping theres another lucas in the ranks ready to come through and give people something to talk about

[Mike]

heres hoping theres another lucas in the ranks ready to come through and give people something to talk about

Your kidding right, he is ghastly.

Agree on the fact we have some bright prospects. Nemeth deserves a chance once he is back from injury.

In the youth team there is ince, ecclestone and amoo. These have great potential and could make it if they continue to develop at the rate they are now.

[the rev leeroy brown]

Your kidding right, he is ghastly.

Agree on the fact we have some bright prospects. Nemeth deserves a chance once he is back from injury.
In the youth team there is ince, ecclestone and amoo. These have great potential and could make it if they continue to develop at the rate they are now.

thought nemeth was out on loan for season?

[Mike]

thought nemeth was out on loan for season?

You may be right, correct me if im wrong but didnt he have a month long loan and then got injured?

[Mattshark]

I don't know much about Fergie and Manu but with the exception of Giggs, Beckham, the Nevilles etc I can think of Wes Brown, O'Shea, Evans and now the Da Silva twins. They may not be great, but they've made the first team.

Wenger - Anelka, Cole, Cesc, Clichy. Anelka and Cesc are class, as was Cole when he was at the Arse. Clichy is a good LB too.

Anelka was bought as a first team player and that was over ten years ago.
Fabregas was there one season before going to the first team. He was not a
product of youth.
Clichy played enough in his first season to get a league winners medal

So that leaves Cole who came through before Rafa was there.

I Rafa's time Just Evans and 1 on the Da Silvas have been in the first team. Counter that with Plessis, El Zhar and Insua.

[the rev leeroy brown]

You may be right, correct me if im wrong but didnt he have a month long loan and then got injured?

from what i can gather you're right, the loan was only 1 month at blackpool. cant find out bout any injury though. anyone got any info on the lad?

[Mike]

from what i can gather you're right, the loan was only 1 month at blackpool. cant find out bout any injury though. anyone got any info on the lad?

Sure someone said he was out for 6weeks.

[Baldemort]

Anelka was bought as a first team player and that was over ten years ago.
Fabregas was there one season before going to the first team. He was not a
product of youth.
Clichy played enough in his first season to get a league winners medal

So that leaves Cole who came through before Rafa was there.

I Rafa's time Just Evans and 1 on the Da Silvas have been in the first team. Counter that with Plessis, El Zhar and Insua.

I thikn we're on about different things here, Matt. I'm not on about just players that have come up throughthe ranks at the Academy, but also very young and inexperienced players that have been bought and brought through to the first team, which is why I mentioned players wanting to come here from elsewhere.

I wouldn't give a **** how Rafa managed to get a gem like Cesc as long as he got him. How old was he when Wenger got him and how much did he pay for him? As good as Insua is, he's no Cesc.

Anelka was bought from PSG and was plucked from nowhere for half a mill by Wenger and turned into a star.

Clichy was bought for a quarter of a mill and played for three years as understudy to Cole while he was nurtured by wenger.

Please don't compare PLessis and El Zhar to that lot.

I hope Insua can realy push on and cement his place in the squad. Hopefully it will encourage more really promising young players to come to us. Players who are on the verge of breaking through and who just need that little bit of nurturing by a top coach.

[Mattshark]

PSG is not nowhere, nor is Barcelona. If you want a player from nowhere how about Arbeloa?
How many players have Arsenal they brought through in the time Rafa has been with us?
Why is El Zhar not comparable to Evans or Da Silva (either one).

[mersey86]

I think we are just reaching the stage now where Rafa's youth system could be starting to produce some end product. We do have Insua, and to a lesser extent, El Zhar, this year. We have also seen that Darby is a decent player. I would expect 1 or 2 new players each season from the youth system to be pushing the first team squad - Nemeth, possibly Spearing next year. Ince, Irwin, Pacheco, Weijl, Kelly, Wisdom, Bouzanis, Pepper, Kancilic (sp?) even Hamilll all posssibilities for the future. Its so much better than it was a few years back.
Strangely, one of the things holding a few of them back, and possibly blocking their long-term path, is the fact that Rafa has brought in some great young players - Reina, Agger, Torres - possibly Babel and Lucas also - who have a long future at Anfield ahead.