Is This Zonal Marking Working Out....

[Vermilion]

Maybe, although with man marking, attacking players runs can pull defenders in a way that doesn't happen with zonal. I think zonal makes set pieces appear more dangerous to the watching eye when the ball is delivered, but I believe the stats over the last 5 years actually show that we concede very few from set plays, and a lot less than most teams who play man-to-man. The fact is also that set-plays are dangerous things, there are times when all the systems in the world won't make much difference to the danger a ball in the box can produce.

Now I know Howard Wilkinson isn't exactly the god of tactics, but I'm going to quote him from one of the links I posted above nonetheless to save me paraphrasing, because I do think he's right on this.

The most common opposition to the system is that zones don't score, players do, so mark the player.

But Wilkinson explains there is a further layer to the argument.

He said: "Players score from dangerous zones. What do goalkeepers do on corners anyhow?

"They zone mark because until the ball is kicked they don't know where the ball will go.

"They don't concern themselves with players, they concern themselves with the ball because it's the ball that scores."

And he dismisses the notion that defenders have to compete with attackers who have a run on them.

"Attackers get a run on you whether you are zone defending or man-for-man marking," Wilkinson said.

Personally, I'm generally much more concerned with our attacking set plays than our defensive ones,

There are good arguments for both, i think fans get caught up in the hype that's around at the present time, there does seem to be a lot of negativity to zonal marking, but mostly from ex players who have never tried it.

If as you say, you believe our stats during Rafa's reign prove we concede less than most from set pieces, and taking that to be the case, then surely that's all anyone needs to know, could we do even better would be the only doubt.

[tsb]

Its failed so many times (can't remember what pacific games though

That would be the friendly we played in Hawaii. Shocking defending that day

[Vermilion]

We have conceded a run of incredibly poorly defended set pieces though recently. Whilst I am sure zonal marking is effective if done properly, its evident that something isnt being done right at the moment and needs addressing quickly.

Also, as you say, the problems with defensive set pieces pale in comparison to our attacking ones. Considering the height we have in the team, only Sami ever seems to be a threat.

It is the recent run that's disturbing, not the overall system, but yes it does need addressing sharpish.

[BigChief]

Zonal or no zonal. Why is it I'm always cacking my pants whenever the opposition get a freekick? Even with three of the best central defenders in the country on the pitch?

[MrMichael]

We have conceded a run of incredibly poorly defended set pieces though recently. Whilst I am sure zonal marking is effective if done properly, its evident that something isnt being done right at the moment and needs addressing quickly.

Also, as you say, the problems with defensive set pieces pale in comparison to our attacking ones. Considering the height we have in the team, only Sami ever seems to be a threat.

It is the recent run that's disturbing, not the overall system, but yes it does need addressing sharpish.

If as you say, you believe our stats during Rafa's reign prove we concede less than most from set pieces, and taking that to be the case, then surely that's all anyone needs to know, could we do even better would be the only doubt.

Well, the only season I can find the stats for without really bothering to research it are 2005 - 6...

"Liverpool only conceded from two corners all last season, both coming in Premiership games (Chelsea away and Everton at home). In total the Reds faced 137 corners in the league, meaning Benítez's men conceded on just 1.5 per cent of them. Only one team, Chelsea, were able to come even close to that, allowing three goals from 127 (2.4 per cent).

In terms of goals conceded from free-kicks delivered into the box, Liverpool also allowed only two in the Premiership all season, again one less than Chelsea. So the Reds conceded one-third fewer league goals than the next-best team when defending set-pieces.

Widening the net to all competitions, Liverpool conceded eight set-piece goals, compared with Chelsea's nine, Arsenal's 12, and Manchester United's 15. Liverpool also played the most matches: meaning fewer set-piece goals conceded from a greater amount of games."

Although that was a very good season, we have consistently had a mean defence, we only conceded 2 more goals the following season, and 1 more again than that last year, so its fair to assume that the distribution of goals is not too different. If its not I will no doubt be corrected

[Joe King]

There is no problem with the system as I said in another thread. Its more of a media obsession with something new which they don't understand - not really a xenophobic attitude but an ignorant attitude to continental methods.

Anyway, the execution of the system is more vital than the system. Some of the players need further coaching on how to narrow the gaps to stop runners getting in between. Mind you, Reina should have done better yesterday

[TheStig]

There is no problem with the system as I said in another thread. Its more of a media obsession with something new which they don't understand - not really a xenophobic attitude but an ignorant attitude to continental methods.

Anyway, the execution of the system is more vital than the system. Some of the players need further coaching on how to narrow the gaps to stop runners getting in between. Mind you, Reina should have done better yesterday

Agreed with all of that .

[Winstonio]

I want to know the last time we scored from a set piece with a header apart from Hyypia.

It is so bad now its beyond a joke, we cannot score from corners unless hyypia is on the post with our head.

It just doesnt happen enough

[Redspin]

it dosent work! The scum are proving that man marking is the only way! For example tim cunt cahill, if you told carra all week he was marking him at set pieces you can be guaranteed the wee cunt wouldn't get away from him! I've never seen space score a goal in my life ! Your marking an area, what if they don't run to the area your standing in????they score that's what happens! Its a terrible system !

Well, as far as I remember, the only goals we've conceded from corner kicks were at Newcastle away and Lescott's goal at Anfield. That's a very impressive return for a system that "doesn't work". Others can tell me if I've missed any

[1 True Red]

That would be the friendly we played in Hawaii. Shocking defending that day

oops just realised my spelling mistake

Ah well, i know what i ment

[Craig_H]

That would be the friendly we played in Hawaii. Shocking defending that day

[Redspin]

I believe zonal marking is our problem when it comes to defending set pieces. The players are all standing around in their little areas while the opposition zips and weaves about and always gets a shot off. Zonal with the run of play is fine.

Zonal marking is only used at corner kicks or the rare occasion a free-kick is taken very close to the corner flag. It is not used at all set-pieces, like 99% of free-kicks, when attackers normally line up on the edge of the box and try to anticipate an inswinging kick

[Redspin]

Zonal or no zonal. Why is it I'm always cacking my pants whenever the opposition get a freekick? Even with three of the best central defenders in the country on the pitch?

As I've stated elsewhere, we don't use zonal marking at most free-kicks. It's almost exclusively a tactic for defending corners

[TheStig]

Well, as far as I remember, the only goals we've conceded from corner kicks were at Newcastle away and Lescott's goal at Anfield. That's a very impressive return for a system that "doesn't work". Others can tell me if I've missed any

Just gone through our games and wrote down how many we've conceded from set plays:

Man City (a) scored direct FK
PSV (a) from a corner
Newcastle (a) from a corner
Everton (h) from a FK
Everton (h) from a corner
Portsmouth (a) from a FK

Direct free kicks you can't do much about, so that's 5 goals we've conceded from set plays.

I wonder how this compares to Manchester United and Chelsea, but I can't be arsed to go through their games!

[wiw]

You have to keep in mind that against a lot of teams their main tactic is to park the bus and nick a goal on a set-piece. Practically anywhere on the pitch if they win a free kick it's lumped into the box. 5 all season is good going when you think about it and the ones we have conceded have either been quality deliveries (Everton) or balls ups on our part, and even then the ball sailed straight to the one place that could've hurt us