Benítez: We could not afford to lose

[Finnish_Red]

I've never disputed that Rafa's done very well. But he doesnt have it in him to win the PL IMO. Furthermore, it's not even about winning the title. There's no divine right and i dont 'expect' us to win it.

What i do want however, is for the manager, whoever it is, to get the best out of what he has to work with. And Rafa doesnt do that on anywhere near a consistent basis. 10 draws out of 27 games proves that.

I think our squad, with a bit of luck and a manager who gets the maximum out of the players, is good enough to win the title. I dont think Rafa gets the best out of them though and i think he makes what is already a hard task, much more difficult.

I dont want a manager who increases the level of difficulty for us.

You have told your opinion about zillion times in zillion threads, can you now give it a rest thank you very much.

[Craig_H]

You have told your opinion about zillion times in zillion threads, can you now give it a rest thank you very much.

I was having a discussion with BFG mate.

You can put me on ignore. Thanks very much.

[BFG]

I've never disputed that Rafa's done very well. But he doesnt have it in him to win the PL IMO. Furthermore, it's not even about winning the title. There's no divine right and i dont 'expect' us to win it.

What i do want however, is for the manager, whoever it is, to get the best out of what he has to work with. And Rafa doesnt do that on anywhere near a consistent basis. 10 draws out of 27 games proves that.

I think our squad, with a bit of luck and a manager who gets the maximum out of the players, is good enough to win the title. I dont think Rafa gets the best out of them though and i think he makes what is already a hard task, much more difficult.

I dont want a manager who increases the level of difficulty for us.

You see, if we'd had this squad five years ago I'd agree with you but after the investment Utd have put into a what was already a very good squad I just don't think we've got the same quality. Maybe first 11 but it's not comparable after that imo but if Torres and Gerrard had not been injured I think we'd be much closer.

When they can go and spend £20-£30mil two or three times a year on a single purchase and that's close to our entire spend then I don't think we should expect to win it and if we did it would be a massive acheivement. We have more pressing issues at the club than Rafa at the moment and we'd struggle to get another manager with half the talent of Benitez with G&H still around. If we get the board room sorted and match Utd's spending and we still don't win the league after a few years then that's when we should be judging his ability to win the Prem. Not when we're being massively outspent and the managers fighting a civil war with people who only care about the money and not the club.

[Craig_H]

You see, if we'd had this squad five years ago I'd agree with you but after the investment Utd have put into a what was already a very good squad I just don't think we've got the same quality. Maybe first 11 but it's not comparable after that imo but if Torres and Gerrard had not been injured I think we'd be much closer.

When they can go and spend £20-£30mil two or three times a year on a single purchase and that's close to our entire spend then I don't think we should expect to win it and if we did it would be a massive acheivement. We have more pressing issues at the club than Rafa at the moment and we'd struggle to get another manager with half the talent of Benitez with G&H still around. If we get the board room sorted and match Utd's spending and we still don't win the league after a few years then that's when we should be judging his ability to win the Prem. Not when we're being massively outspent and the managers fighting a civil war with people who only care about the money and not the club.

Yeah but the point is, the things which have killed our league challenge are home draws against Hull, Stoke, Fulham, West Ham etc etc - you cant tell me, even with all the problems, that we're incapable of beating these sides on a regular basis.

If the things stopping us winning the title were off field, fair enough. But they've been things which Benitez and the players have got wrong.

[BFG]

Yeah but the point is, the things which have killed our league challenge are home draws against Hull, Stoke, Fulham, West Ham etc etc - you cant tell me, even with all the problems, that we're incapable of beating these sides on a regular basis.

If the things stopping us winning the title were off field, fair enough. But they've been things which Benitez and the players have got wrong.

Some of them are no argument. The players and manager have made mistakes at times but we are where we should be at the moment imo and if Torres and Gerrard had been fit all season then who knows where we'd be. If Rafa could go and buy three £20mil players this summer I think we'd then have the firepower to put away the teams that come to Anfield looking for a 0-0.

I don't believe there's a sound argument out there for saying we should be coming ahead of Utd and time and stability is the only thing that will change that, not calling for the managers head. Imagine how different things might have been if Ferguson (who didn't remotely look like winning anything for 5 years) hadn't been given time.

[The Birdman]

Yeah but the point is, the things which have killed our league challenge are home draws against Hull, Stoke, Fulham, West Ham etc etc - you cant tell me, even with all the problems, that we're incapable of beating these sides on a regular basis.

If the things stopping us winning the title were off field, fair enough. But they've been things which Benitez and the players have got wrong.

While that is clearly true it is also true that Utd have gone on a record breaking run of results to pull themselves clear, they have had massive slices of luck, been massively favoured by the refs in games and have deserved their lead by results alone.

What is also true is that they have a better team and a better squad, also a bigger stadium with alomost twice as much revenue generated every home game.

Rafa has made mistakes of course he has but the dip in form isn't down to him and him alone, there are a lot of factors

[Craig_H]

Some of them are no argument. The players and manager have made mistakes at times but we are where we should be at the moment imo and if Torres and Gerrard had been fit all season then who knows where we'd be. If Rafa could go and buy three £20mil players this summer I think we'd then have the firepower to put away the teams that come to Anfield looking for a 0-0.

I don't believe there's a sound argument out there for saying we should be coming ahead of Utd and time and stability is the only thing that will change that, not calling for the managers head. Imagine how different things might have been if Ferguson (who didn't remotely look like winning anything for 5 years) hadn't been given time.

I'm not saying we should come ahead of them. We should be able to fight for the title til April time though.

As for 'we are where we should be' - isnt that saying that we shouldnt expect to beat most of those sides who come to Anfield? Cos i think we should.

Over the past four years, the amount of home points we've dropped has got bigger every season. We're going backwards in that department and Rafa is still none the wiser as to how to solve it.

[Craig_H]

While that is clearly true it is also true that Utd have gone on a record breaking run of results to pull themselves clear, they have had massive slices of luck, been massively favoured by the refs in games and have deserved their lead by results alone.

What is also true is that they have a better team and a better squad, also a bigger stadium with alomost twice as much revenue generated every home game.

Rafa has made mistakes of course he has but the dip in form isn't down to him and him alone, there are a lot of factors

Mate, Man Utd's run has been brilliant, but they'll still end the season about 90 points, same as every other PL title winner. They wont have done something unheard of or miraculous. If they were gonna get 100 points or something, i'd say fair play, they're simply too good. But that's not the case.

Rafa's mistakes have made a hard task even harder - and they get repeated, that's the biggest pisstake.

Forget United though - my issue is US.

I just want us to get the most out of what we have - and we simply dont.

[The Birdman]

Mate, Man Utd's run has been brilliant, but they'll still end the season about 90 points, same as every other PL title winner. They wont have done something unheard of or miraculous. If they were gonna get 100 points or something, i'd say fair play, they're simply too good. But that's not the case.

Rafa's mistakes have made a hard task even harder - and they get repeated, that's the biggest pisstake.

Forget United though - my issue is US.

I just want us to get the most out of what we have - and we simply dont.

I agree it's frustrating, my opinion is that Rafa has his system and that with the right players within that system we would be doing a lot better, I also agree that replacing one average squad player with another average squad player is pointless but we need to have enough players to cover for injuries etc..
My point is that to improve we need to spend approx 45m on 3 top quality players who will come straight into the team, we don't have that money so do you persevere with Rafa, finish top 4 every year to keep the CL revenue or do you sack him off, get rid of all his assistants, bring someone new in, start the cycle all over again and potentially risk losing Torres and others because that is what is at stake

[Skillz]

I've never disputed that Rafa's done very well. But he doesnt have it in him to win the PL IMO. Furthermore, it's not even about winning the title. There's no divine right and i dont 'expect' us to win it.

What i do want however, is for the manager, whoever it is, to get the best out of what he has to work with. And Rafa doesnt do that on anywhere near a consistent basis. 10 draws out of 27 games proves that.

I think our squad, with a bit of luck and a manager who gets the maximum out of the players, is good enough to win the title. I dont think Rafa gets the best out of them though and i think he makes what is already a hard task, much more difficult.

I dont want a manager who increases the level of difficulty for us.

I think we have done quite well this season considering how little time Gerrard and Torres have shared on the pitch this season. Going through a blip at the moment though.

[Shaggy]

They wont have done something unheard of or miraculous.

14 consecutive clean sheets is a world record and therefore unheard of.

[Craig_H]

I agree it's frustrating, my opinion is that Rafa has his system and that with the right players within that system we would be doing a lot better, I also agree that replacing one average squad player with another average squad player is pointless but we need to have enough players to cover for injuries etc..
My point is that to improve we need to spend approx 45m on 3 top quality players who will come straight into the team, we don't have that money so do you persevere with Rafa, finish top 4 every year to keep the CL revenue or do you sack him off, get rid of all his assistants, bring someone new in, start the cycle all over again and potentially risk losing Torres and others because that is what is at stake

That's just it though mate - we dont. If we'd won most of those home games, we'd be up there with United right now. Did we need another £45m worth of players to do that??

We've beaten United and Chelsea twice with the players we already have. Are you saying we need £45m worth of top players to beat Hull and Stoke? Fulham and West Ham? City and Everton? That's surely not true.

Teams without top class players beat them, so to say that we still need £45m worth of players is wrong.

[Craig_H]

14 consecutive clean sheets is a world record and therefore unheard of.

The total points tally wins the title mate, not clean sheet records.

They'll end with about 90 points, same as pretty much every title winners.

[Shaggy]

The total points tally wins the title mate, not clean sheet records.

They'll end with about 90 points, same as pretty much every title winners.

You said they’ve not done anything special or unheard of.

They have.

Clean sheets, **** loads of them especially, is a large contributory factor in accumulating points. You can’t just look at the points total in isolation. You need to see the big picture.

[Craig_H]

You said they’ve not done anything special or unheard of.

They have.

Clean sheets, **** loads of them especially, is a large contributory factor in accumulating points. You can’t just look at the points total in isolation. You need to see the big picture.

I obviously meant the points tally.

They're going to amass about 90 which isnt some unreachable level that nobody's ever managed before.

Stoke, Hull, West Ham and City - you cant seriously be telling me we shouldnt be looking to beat those kind of teams at home? You'll get the odd blip but not 6 of them.

We'd be top. And without any record breaking clean sheets run.

Do you think United's final tally will be something that nobody could ever hope to compete with? Really?